Silver Stackers logo

Silver Stackers

Discussion forum for those
who love to stack precious metals

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Forum registration is open.

#1 2017-03-07 23:32:37

mmm....shiney!
Silver Stacker
From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 15,951
Trades :   102 
Website

A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

Post rates notices.

Last edited by mmm....shiney! (2017-03-07 23:38:27)


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

Offline

#2 2017-03-08 06:48:08

renovator
Member
From: QLD
Registered: 2011-01-20
Posts: 7,530
Trades :   

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

mmm....shiney! wrote:

Post rates notices.

lol ...Get your rates today shiney ? so did i . Its criminal the amount i pay for my garbage to be picked up .


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

Offline

#3 2017-03-08 07:03:00

willrocks
Silver Stacker
From: Yesterday
Registered: 2012-05-10
Posts: 7,629
Trades :   29 

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

Increased taxation, but call it something else (e.g. levy)


"You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

Offline

The following user says thank you for this post: bordsilver

#4 2017-03-08 20:59:13

mmm....shiney!
Silver Stacker
From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 15,951
Trades :   102 
Website

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

renovator wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:

Post rates notices.

lol ...Get your rates today shiney ? so did i . Its criminal the amount i pay for my garbage to be picked up .

They're due this month. Problem when the sole provider of goods enforces it's market monopoly upon consumers it results in a general downturn in business which is felt across the whole community.


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

Offline

The following user says thank you for this post: willrocks

#5 2017-03-09 00:42:28

renovator
Member
From: QLD
Registered: 2011-01-20
Posts: 7,530
Trades :   

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

mmm....shiney! wrote:
renovator wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:

Post rates notices.

lol ...Get your rates today shiney ? so did i . Its criminal the amount i pay for my garbage to be picked up .

They're due this month. Problem when the sole provider of goods enforces it's market monopoly upon consumers it results in a general downturn in business which is felt across the whole community.

What ? So if there's 10 providers & they all send the bill at the same time you have the same problem. I have no idea what you are on about sometimes.
I have more of a problem with the amount charged for services provided or is that what you were trying to say about it being a monopoly?
Enforces their monopoly?  If there is several entities providing services you still have to pay. Same net effect on the community .do u think they will stagger payment schedules ? Then you have people paying all the time with a general slowdown over  longer periods. .


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

Offline

#6 2017-03-09 02:18:12

willrocks
Silver Stacker
From: Yesterday
Registered: 2012-05-10
Posts: 7,629
Trades :   29 

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

If there were 10 competing providers I'd choose one (the least expensive) and pay one.


"You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

Offline

The following 2 users say thank you for this post: mmm....shiney!, renovator

#7 2017-03-09 02:26:43

bordsilver
Silver Stacker
From: The rocks
Registered: 2012-05-23
Posts: 9,596
Trades :   36 

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

renovator wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:
renovator wrote:

lol ...Get your rates today shiney ? so did i . Its criminal the amount i pay for my garbage to be picked up .

They're due this month. Problem when the sole provider of goods enforces it's market monopoly upon consumers it results in a general downturn in business which is felt across the whole community.

What ? So if there's 10 providers & they all send the bill at the same time you have the same problem. I have no idea what you are on about sometimes.
I have more of a problem with the amount charged for services provided or is that what you were trying to say about it being a monopoly?
Enforces their monopoly?  If there is several entities providing services you still have to pay. Same net effect on the community .do u think they will stagger payment schedules ? Then you have people paying all the time with a general slowdown over  longer periods. .

?? One minute you're saying that you reckon you pay the monopolist too much to get your garbage picked up but the next you reckon the cost will be the same regardless of who does it?


The only good tax is a repealed tax.

Offline

#8 2017-03-09 05:01:44

mmm....shiney!
Silver Stacker
From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 15,951
Trades :   102 
Website

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

renovator wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:
renovator wrote:

lol ...Get your rates today shiney ? so did i . Its criminal the amount i pay for my garbage to be picked up .

They're due this month. Problem when the sole provider of goods enforces it's market monopoly upon consumers it results in a general downturn in business which is felt across the whole community.

What ? So if there's 10 providers & they all send the bill at the same time you have the same problem. I have no idea what you are on about sometimes.

If there were 10 competing service providers, and if by some remote chance they adopted exactly the same financial strategy as our current councils ie choosing to bill landowners twice yearly at the same time, and if by some remote chance they all charged exactly the same amount as our current councils despite being in competition with each other, the effect on commercial activity would still be less destructive than that which currently exists because there would still be businesses making good money at this time of year, enabling them to pay staff and invest in capital goods that would improve productivity, lowering costs and enhancing the wealth of community members.

Councils can't do that because there are too many special interest groups with their hands out after other people's money. Councils have to give away some of the money they make so people can have arts festivals and Australia Day parades.

renovator wrote:

I have more of a problem with the amount charged for services provided or is that what you were trying to say about it being a monopoly?
Enforces their monopoly?  If there is several entities providing services you still have to pay. Same net effect on the community .do u think they will stagger payment schedules ? Then you have people paying all the time with a general slowdown over  longer periods. .

You mean like we pay for big ticket items all the time? Like food? Cars? Mortgages? Instead of one or two big bills we can choose to pay them off?

Nah, can't see a payment schedule working at all. roll

Last edited by mmm....shiney! (2017-03-09 05:05:14)


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

Offline

#9 2017-03-09 05:05:24

renovator
Member
From: QLD
Registered: 2011-01-20
Posts: 7,530
Trades :   

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

bordsilver wrote:
renovator wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:

They're due this month. Problem when the sole provider of goods enforces it's market monopoly upon consumers it results in a general downturn in business which is felt across the whole community.

What ? So if there's 10 providers & they all send the bill at the same time you have the same problem. I have no idea what you are on about sometimes.
I have more of a problem with the amount charged for services provided or is that what you were trying to say about it being a monopoly?
Enforces their monopoly?  If there is several entities providing services you still have to pay. Same net effect on the community .do u think they will stagger payment schedules ? Then you have people paying all the time with a general slowdown over  longer periods. .

?? One minute you're saying that you reckon you pay the monopolist too much to get your garbage picked up but the next you reckon the cost will be the same regardless of who does it?

I would say the cost difference overall would be negligible.

We all know how it works at first its a fair deal then once they are all going for a while the price creeps up.

My comment about picking up the garbage was tongue in cheek as any owner will tell you they dont actually do anything else for you. They do lots around the community but not to much for the homeowners who foot the bill.

Imo generally rates bills far outweigh services provided.


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

Offline

The following user says thank you for this post: mmm....shiney!

#10 2017-03-09 05:10:23

renovator
Member
From: QLD
Registered: 2011-01-20
Posts: 7,530
Trades :   

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

mmm....shiney! wrote:
renovator wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:

They're due this month. Problem when the sole provider of goods enforces it's market monopoly upon consumers it results in a general downturn in business which is felt across the whole community.

What ? So if there's 10 providers & they all send the bill at the same time you have the same problem. I have no idea what you are on about sometimes.

If there were 10 competing service providers, and if by some remote chance they adopted exactly the same financial strategy as our current councils ie choosing to bill landowners twice yearly at the same time, and if by some remote chance they all charged exactly the same amount as our current councils despite being in competition with each other, the effect on commercial activity would still be less destructive than that which currently exists because there would still be businesses making good money at this time of year, enabling them to pay staff and invest in capital goods that would improve productivity, lowering costs and enhancing the wealth of community members.

Councils can't do that because there are too many special interest groups with their hands out after other people's money. Councils have to give away some of the money they make so people can have arts festivals and Australia Day parades.

renovator wrote:

I have more of a problem with the amount charged for services provided or is that what you were trying to say about it being a monopoly?
Enforces their monopoly?  If there is several entities providing services you still have to pay. Same net effect on the community .do u think they will stagger payment schedules ? Then you have people paying all the time with a general slowdown over  longer periods. .

You mean like we pay for big ticket items all the time? Like food? Cars? Mortgages? Instead of one or two big bills we can choose to pay them off?

Nah, can't see a payment schedule working at all. roll

Still cant see where all your extra money is coming from to spend on your business just because you get to pay it off. I think the extra comes from making more money  tongue:


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

Offline

#11 2017-03-09 05:15:48

mmm....shiney!
Silver Stacker
From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 15,951
Trades :   102 
Website

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

renovator wrote:

Still cant see where all your extra money is coming from to spend on your business just because you get to pay it off. I think the extra comes from making more money  tongue:

Who would you rather give one of your hard earned dollars to if you have to? Who would you trust to do a better job with using that $1?

A private enterprise or the government?

cool


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

Offline

#12 2017-03-09 05:21:03

JulieW
Silver Stacker
From: Australia
Registered: 2010-10-14
Posts: 11,101

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

Depends on the restrictions on how they spend that dollar and the consequences of how they spend that dollar.

cool

Offline

The following user says thank you for this post: renovator

#13 2017-03-09 05:26:29

mmm....shiney!
Silver Stacker
From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 15,951
Trades :   102 
Website

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

JulieW wrote:

Depends on the restrictions on how they spend that dollar and the consequences of how they spend that dollar.

cool

Good point.

If there were restrictions on how they used that $ then those restrictions would be enacted by legislation, divorced from their effect upon the profitability of the company/government department collecting the revenue and the economic benefit to those paying the bills. So you'd probably end up with it being wasted, as much of it is already. wink


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

Offline

The following user says thank you for this post: renovator

#14 2017-03-09 06:02:09

renovator
Member
From: QLD
Registered: 2011-01-20
Posts: 7,530
Trades :   

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

mmm....shiney! wrote:
renovator wrote:

Still cant see where all your extra money is coming from to spend on your business just because you get to pay it off. I think the extra comes from making more money  tongue:

Who would you rather give one of your hard earned dollars to if you have to? Who would you trust to do a better job with using that $1?

A private enterprise or the government?

cool

Of course i would rather give it a privateer but the way it stands with local government in its present state we havent got a hope in hell of that happening . Unfortunately  i dont think it will change in my lifetime.


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

Offline

#15 2017-03-09 17:40:20

mmm....shiney!
Silver Stacker
From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 15,951
Trades :   102 
Website

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

renovator wrote:

Of course i would rather give it a privateer but the way it stands with local government in its present state we havent got a hope in hell of that happening . Unfortunately  i dont think it will change in my lifetime.

So it's back to the topic then: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity.


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

Offline

#16 2017-03-09 17:48:30

Stoic Phoenix
Silver Stacker
From: little things big things grow.
Registered: 2014-11-12
Posts: 2,952
Trades :   183 
Website

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

Allow GP's and physios to dry needle patients (100 hour max acupuncture course) under medicare cover but not allow acupuncturists (2500 hrs training) to do so.


www.searchnstay.com    ....for all your accommodation needs worldwide

Online

The following 2 users say thank you for this post: Shaddam IV, mmm....shiney!

#17 2017-03-09 20:47:56

mmm....shiney!
Silver Stacker
From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 15,951
Trades :   102 
Website

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

Stoic Phoenix wrote:

Allow GP's and physios to dry needle patients (100 hour max acupuncture course) under medicare cover but not allow acupuncturists (2500 hrs training) to do so.

http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic- … ation.html

Maybe the assumption is that Quacks are smarter than Spear Chuckers?


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

Offline

#18 2017-03-09 21:38:13

Stoic Phoenix
Silver Stacker
From: little things big things grow.
Registered: 2014-11-12
Posts: 2,952
Trades :   183 
Website

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

^ Debatable....but that doesn't explain physios (and if you try telling me they are smarter I will drive north and slap you upside the head with a fillet of cod) wink

Last edited by Stoic Phoenix (2017-03-09 21:46:43)


www.searchnstay.com    ....for all your accommodation needs worldwide

Online

The following user says thank you for this post: mmm....shiney!

#19 2017-03-09 21:58:57

mmm....shiney!
Silver Stacker
From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 15,951
Trades :   102 
Website

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

Local council is rejecting some material change of use applications for those wanting to operate businesses from home. Their excuse? They don't want to increase traffic flow in suburban areas.  hmm

Instead, they want to force new businesses to the CBD and already established commercial areas. This drives up rents, concentrates traffic in congested urban areas, requires more infrastructure spending on car parking, footpaths etc all of which drives up the cost of business and reduces wealth as consumers are forced to pay more and travel further for goods.

God knows where civilisation would be if we'd adopted similar policies in the past. We'd have no cities and we'd be immeasurably poorer as a result. Governments should be getting out of the way of entrepreneurs not erecting artificial barriers which have no sound economic benefit.


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

Offline

#20 2017-03-09 23:35:26

JulieW
Silver Stacker
From: Australia
Registered: 2010-10-14
Posts: 11,101

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

The trouble is over-employment. All those 20 somethings with a Maccas degree and theory and common sense in inverse proportion.

They sit around in meetings trying to look impressive for their 30 something boss's performance reviews and propose harebrained schemes for the good of everyone less smart than them. Schemes that shouldn't have made it past Year 10 debating class.

It's only going to get worse.

Offline

#21 2017-03-10 06:55:39

mmm....shiney!
Silver Stacker
From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 15,951
Trades :   102 
Website

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

renovator wrote:

I have no idea what you are on about sometimes.

Frank Shostak explains it better than me:


Government Spending Doesn't Create Wealth

This is, however, not the case. Government activities are confined to the redistribution of real wealth from wealth generators to wealth consumers. Government activities result in taking wealth from one person and channeling it to another.

Various impressive projects that the government undertakes also fall into the category of wealth redistribution. The fact that the private sector didn't undertake these projects indicates that they are low on the priority list of consumers.

Given the state of the pool of real wealth the implementation of these projects will undermine the well-being of individuals since they will be introduced at the expense of projects that are higher on the priority list of consumers.

Let us assume that the government decides to build a pyramid that most people regard as low priority. The people who will be employed on this project must be given access to various goods and services to sustain their life and well-beings.

Since the government is not a wealth producer it would have to impose taxes on wealth producers (those individuals who produce goods and services in accordance with consumers' most important priorities) in order to support the building of a pyramid.

Whenever wealth producers exchange their products with each other, the exchange is voluntary. Every producer exchanges goods in his possession for goods that he believes will raise his living standard.

The crux therefore is that the exchange or the trade must be free and thus reflective of individual's priorities. Government taxes are, however, of a coercive nature: they force producers to part with their wealth in exchange for an unwanted pyramid. This implies that producers are forced to exchange more for less, and obviously this impairs their well-being.

The more that pyramid-building that is undertaken by the government the more real wealth is taken away from wealth producers. We can thus infer that the level of tax,  i.e. real wealth, taken from the private sector is directly determined by the size of government activities.

Observe that by being a wealth consumer, the government cannot contribute to savings and to the pool of real wealth. Moreover, if government activities could have generated wealth then they would have been self-funded and would not have required any support from other wealth generators. If this were otherwise then the issue of taxes would never arise.

https://mises.org/blog/why-government-s … ze-deficit

I know it's a long quote, so I'll paraphrase it for you.  tongue

We buy things to improve our living standards, but we can't afford to buy everything we want so we have to prioritise our needs. When governments tax and levy charges, we are being forced to pay for things we don't necessarily want and therefore have to go without things that may be more important to us or may actually need even more, or use more of our wealth to get what we want. smile

Last edited by mmm....shiney! (2017-03-10 18:02:22)


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

Offline

#22 2017-03-10 07:46:31

millededge
Member
From: camp x-ray, spelling division
Registered: 2010-09-04
Posts: 2,417
Trades :   16 

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

Stoic Phoenix wrote:

Allow GP's and physios to dry needle patients (100 hour max acupuncture course) under medicare cover but not allow acupuncturists (2500 hrs training) to do so.

 
Acupuncture could be delivered by robots, like a sewing machine. I am surprised the merchants of Qi have seemingly not taken aboard Qi in its modern forms. Light through materials is a great form of pinpoint energy.

Strangely, as an alternative therapy, acupuncture lends itself to precision robotics. It is regarded in medicine as a sensory gating treatment, much as a deodorant gates the olfaction of BO. The mind can only deal with a certain set of stimuli at once, so the noxious stimulus is gated away. This fact is readily exploited, for better or worse.

Last edited by millededge (2017-03-10 07:48:11)

Offline

#23 2017-03-10 20:17:43

Stoic Phoenix
Silver Stacker
From: little things big things grow.
Registered: 2014-11-12
Posts: 2,952
Trades :   183 
Website

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

Narrow mindness also kills commercial activity,
Why do most involved in "western medicine" which is still in its infancy declare a 5000 year old method of medicine as "alternative"?
Robot's  placing pins...feasible, but diagnosing individuals based on their particular issue?
That type of western thinking of "one size fits all" is lazy and as such can be erroneous.
Each has its place and those in western medicine in this country lobby hard to prevent this to the detriment of people seeking treatment for conditions.
Chiro's in the near future are going to be absolutely annihilated due to the lack of evidence based research (search cochrane for details)....the last 30 years they have pretty much relied upon their lobbists.
Western medicinal practitioners are eager to cut into someone where for many conditions it just isn't required (eg - Tennis elbow) and in some cases has been definitively proven to have no positive results. (Eg - check research into rotator cuff surgery,  results = ZERO benefit)...your doctor will still want to operate on you though for this.

As to the poor description and analogy of how acupuncture works above...not just narrow minded but totally incorrect. Just as one example how can you explain by stimulating one point on a pregnant woman it is possible to have a foetus in breech position face the correct way with your definition of how acupuncture works?
Quite simply Its a western minded attempt to explain away something that clearly you have not researched and therefore by default do not understand.

Worse still you close post by stating it is a fact....utterly ridiculous stance which is all too common and.....not fact.

If anyone wants to debate this further start a new thread so the purpose of this one is not detracted from.

Last edited by Stoic Phoenix (2017-03-11 00:11:53)


www.searchnstay.com    ....for all your accommodation needs worldwide

Online

The following 2 users say thank you for this post: mmm....shiney!, renovator

#24 2017-03-11 07:13:31

millededge
Member
From: camp x-ray, spelling division
Registered: 2010-09-04
Posts: 2,417
Trades :   16 

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

Well, that hit a nerve tongue

If you want to shut down debate on an apparently high note for you, ok

I like strong argument here, including yours.

As an undergraduate, I studied the use of acupuncture in obstetrics. Back then, that was pretty radical.

If acupuncture is more than a gating mechanism, I'm all ears.

Humans have a great way of using the best available tool for a job. Acupuncture has a limited place, otherwise I'd have taken it up enthusiastically.

"5000 year old" is a familiar mantra to me, of the chinauvanists, indoctrinated in the greatness of China.

If after 5000 years, do you sincerely think acupuncture for a breech presentation would remain a mystery to the remainder of the planet? Or perhaps, there is another explanation?

Rotator cuff injuries management is largely non-surgical and the management of lateral epicondylitis refractory to conservative treatment not that great. So, acupuncture if it works, it is welcome. Western medicine uses the empirical method. To my understanding, there is not enough evidence that acupuncture works well for treatment refractory tennis elbow (the usual situation the "healing knife" will be considered in the West.

Stem cell treatment is an interesting development. Autologous stem cell implants are being trialled right now in tennis elbow. The cost is quite severe, so it is limited to elite sport and the wealthy in places that are welcoming of stem cell tech, such as HK and Singapore.

Last edited by millededge (2017-03-11 07:34:02)

Offline

#25 2017-03-11 07:36:35

millededge
Member
From: camp x-ray, spelling division
Registered: 2010-09-04
Posts: 2,417
Trades :   16 

Re: A "How to" on ways governments can kill commercial activity

And where did I say robots replace diagnosis?

Robotics lends itself well to acupuncture for obvious reasons, just as surface anatomy calculated by software is an advance.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB