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#1 2017-02-12 19:07:09

mmm....shiney!
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Climate change resource

I'm not sure what happened to yippe's "What if climate change was a lie?" thread, it was an enduring legacy from a colourful former member, but here is a resource for any interested in counterfactual climate change theories. Not sure if it's been posted before, some may find it useful:

The Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC) is an international panel of nongovernment scientists and scholars who have come together to present a comprehensive, authoritative, and realistic assessment of the science and economics of global warming. Because it is not a government agency, and because its members are not predisposed to believe climate change is caused by human greenhouse gas emissions, NIPCC is able to offer an independent "second opinion" of the evidence reviewed – or not reviewed – by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) on the issue of global warming.

http://climatechangereconsidered.org/


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#2 2017-02-12 20:25:02

southerncross
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Re: Climate change resource

Interesting, Looks like it has been disappeared.

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#3 2017-02-12 20:35:20

SpacePete
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Re: Climate change resource

That's the Heartland Institute. They hardly present an unbiased opinion given the funding comes from vested interests like the Koch brothers and ExxonMobil with an objective to undermine and discredit climate science.


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#4 2017-02-12 20:40:08

SpacePete
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Re: Climate change resource

...the Heartland Institute launches a new report Climate Change Reconsidered. To write the report, Heartland assembled a group it calls the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC), a particularly revealing choice of name. The name, combined with the timing of the release to coincide with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)'s upcoming Fifth Assessment Report (AR5), shows that Heartland is attempting to present itself as a legitimate alternative authority to the IPCC.

The Heartland Institute's Credibility

The Heartland Institute has a long history of valuing the interests of its financial backers over the conclusions of experts. It has campaigned against the threats posed by second-hand smoke, acid rain, and ozone depletion, as well as the Endangered Species Act. With its aggressive campaigning using tools such as billboards comparing climate change "believers" to the Unabomber, Heartland makes no pretense at being a scientific organization.

Heartland's funding over the past decade has included thousands of dollars directly from ExxonMobil and the American Petroleum Institute, but a large portion of their funding ($25.6 million) comes from the shadowy Donor's Capital Fund, created expressly to conceal the identity of large donors to free-market causes. The Koch brothers appear to be funneling money into Donor's Capital via their Knowledge and Progress Fund.

Heartland's credibility has been so damaged that mainstream funders have been abandoning the organization, and it has been forced to discontinue its annual climate conference.

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/2013 … lity-test/


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#5 2017-02-12 20:48:02

southerncross
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Re: Climate change resource

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change do a great job of undermining and discrediting themselves with their own mandate of ignoring anything outside of HUMAN CAUSES for a changing climate don't you think ?
Not a single prediction correct, not a single model correct, and numerous examples of manipulation and dodgy "science" that arrives at a preconcluded outcome.

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#6 2017-02-12 21:10:03

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Climate change resource

SpacePete wrote:

That's the Heartland Institute. They hardly present an unbiased opinion given the funding comes from vested interests like the Koch brothers and ExxonMobil with an objective to undermine and discredit climate science.

Because they don't believe in AGW they're biased?

So the IPCC must be biased according to that logic.  wink


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#7 2017-02-12 21:11:46

Court Jester
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Re: Climate change resource

I said it in that thread and Ill say it here :

Climate change IS a lie.


<--------------------------------------------------------- SIDEWAYS --------------------------------------------------------->
quote=sammysilver 25/10/13  ----- PMs will drive silver to over $30 by Christmas with the GSR dropping to sub 50. I've overextended myself at sub $24 but will keep buying up to $30 then sell half my stack at Easter at $36 and buy up on the next dip if there is one.
Running Telly of incorrect to correct Predictions by SammySilver -- 7:1 as of 10/08/16

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#8 2017-02-12 21:22:34

southerncross
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Re: Climate change resource

Court Jester wrote:

I said it in that thread and Ill say it here :

Climate change IS a lie.

No it's not, Climate does change. Catastrophic human induced climate change caused by the emission of Co2 is a LIE though.

There is not a single iota of evidence that the human production of Co2 has any effect on the climate whatsoever, despite the Trillions spent and over twenty years of trying to prove it.

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#9 2017-02-12 21:26:27

JulieW
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Re: Climate change resource

SpacePete wrote:

That's the Heartland Institute. They hardly present an unbiased opinion given the funding comes from vested interests like the Koch brothers and ExxonMobil with an objective to undermine and discredit climate science.


I was interested to hear today that many of the scientists involved in the 'smoking tobacco has no causality to disease' moved on to climate science when Big Tobacco stopped funding the research.

Incidentally, smoking amongst youngsters is increasing - possibly due to the massive amount of smoking on television and movies. Of course it's a plot device and nothing to do with big Tobacco funding the movie makers!! Perhaps Big Oil should start funding a few more movies.

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#10 2017-02-12 21:27:07

SpacePete
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Re: Climate change resource

mmm....shiney! wrote:
SpacePete wrote:

That's the Heartland Institute. They hardly present an unbiased opinion given the funding comes from vested interests like the Koch brothers and ExxonMobil with an objective to undermine and discredit climate science.

Because they don't believe in AGW they're biased?

Can you honestly claim they are unbiased though? That is the point I was addressing. I expected you'd at least try to look at both sides objectively rather than instantly dismissing it.


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#11 2017-02-12 21:42:38

southerncross
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#12 2017-02-12 21:52:30

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Climate change resource

SpacePete wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:
SpacePete wrote:

That's the Heartland Institute. They hardly present an unbiased opinion given the funding comes from vested interests like the Koch brothers and ExxonMobil with an objective to undermine and discredit climate science.

Because they don't believe in AGW they're biased?

Can you honestly claim they are unbiased though? That is the point I was addressing. I expected you'd at least try to look at both sides objectively rather than instantly dismissing it.

No, I'm admitting they're probably biased. Those that fund them have an inherent interest in defending their property against those who believe the AGW hypothesis. In much the same way that those who push AGW have an inherent interest in promoting those that fund them.

I think the content of their reports still merit attention, despite whatever bias they may hold. And also I'm happy to read anything associated with The Heartland Institute, for obviously biased reasons. I just happen to believe my bias is well justified.


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#13 2017-02-12 22:05:31

southerncross
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Re: Climate change resource

mmm....shiney! wrote:
SpacePete wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:

Because they don't believe in AGW they're biased?

Can you honestly claim they are unbiased though? That is the point I was addressing. I expected you'd at least try to look at both sides objectively rather than instantly dismissing it.

No, I'm admitting they're probably biased. Those that fund them have an inherent interest in defending their property against those who believe the AGW hypothesis. In much the same way that those who push AGW have an inherent interest in promoting those that fund them.

I think the content of their reports still merit attention, despite whatever bias they may hold. And also I'm happy to read anything associated with The Heartland Institute, for obviously biased reasons. I just happen to believe my bias is well justified.



What you wont hear about the IPCC on the MSM.

Here is a very small sampling of what current and former UN scientists have to say about the UN's climate claims and its scientific methods.

Warming fears are the "worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists." – UN IPCC Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.

"The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn't listen to others. It doesn't have open minds… I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists." – Indian geologist Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.

"Temperature measurements show that the [climate model-predicted mid-troposphere] hot zone is non-existent. This is more than sufficient to invalidate global climate models and projections made with them!"- UN IPCC Scientist Dr. Steven M. Japar, a PhD atmospheric chemist who was part of Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's (IPCC) Second (1995) and Third (2001) Assessment Reports, and has authored 83 peer-reviewed publications and in the areas of climate change, atmospheric chemistry, air pollutions and vehicle emissions.

UN IPCC Scientist Kenneth P. Green Declares 'A Death Spiral for Climate Alarmism' – September 30, 2009 – 'We can expect climate crisis industry to grow increasingly shrill, and increasingly hostile toward anyone who questions their authority' – Dr. Kenneth Green was a Working Group 1 expert reviewer for the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) in 2001

'The whole climate change issue is about to fall apart — Heads will roll!' -South African UN Scientist Dr. Will Alexander, April 12, 2009 – Professor Alexander, is Emeritus of the Department of Civil and Biosystems Engineering at the University of Pretoria in South Africa, and a former member of the United Nations Scientific and Technical Committee on Natural Disasters.

"I was at the table with three Europeans, and we were having lunch. And they were talking about their role as lead authors. And they were talking about how they were trying to make the report so dramatic that the United States would just have to sign that Kyoto Protocol," Christy told CNN on May 2, 2007. – Alabama State Climatologist Dr. John Christy of the University of Alabama in Huntsville, served as a UN IPCC lead author in 2001 for the 3rd assessment report and detailed how he personally witnessed UN scientists attempting to distort the science for political purposes.

"Gore prompted me to start delving into the science again and I quickly found myself solidly in the skeptic camp…Climate models can at best be useful for explaining climate changes after the fact." – Meteorologist Hajo Smit of Holland, who reversed his belief in man-made warming to become a skeptic, is a former member of the Dutch UN IPCC committee.

"The quantity of CO2 we produce is insignificant in terms of the natural circulation between air, water and soil… I am doing a detailed assessment of the UN IPCC reports and the Summaries for Policy Makers, identifying the way in which the Summaries have distorted the science." – South African Nuclear Physicist and Chemical Engineer Dr. Philip Lloyd, a UN IPCC co-coordinating lead author who has authored over 150 refereed publications.

"The claims of the IPCC are dangerous unscientific nonsense" – declared IPCC reviewer and climate researcher Dr Vincent Gray, of New Zealand in 2007. Gray was an expert reviewer on every single draft of the IPCC reports going back to 1990, author of more than 100 scientific publications. (LINK) & (LINK)

"After reading [UN IPCC chairman] Pachauri's asinine comment [comparing skeptics to] Flat Earthers, it's hard to remain quiet." – Climate statistician Dr. William M. Briggs, who specializes in the statistics of forecast evaluation, serves on the American Meteorological Society's Probability and Statistics Committee and is an Associate Editor of Monthly Weather Review.

UN IPCC Lead Author Tom Tripp Dissents on man-made warming: 'We're not scientifically there yet' – July 16, 2009

The UN IPCC's Kevin Trenberth's claim that the UN IPCC is an "very open" also needs examining. The IPCC summary for policymakers is used to scare politicians and goad the public into action. The UN is all about politics.

UN special climate envoy Dr. Gro Harlem Brundtland declared "it's completely immoral, even, to question" the UN's alleged global warming "consensus," according to a May 10, 2007 article. Sounds scientific, doesn't it?

Dr. John Brignell, a UK Emeritus Engineering Professor at the University of Southampton who held the Chair in Industrial Instrumentation at Southampton, accused the UN of "censorship" on July 23, 2008. "Here was a purely political body posing as a scientific institution. Through the power of patronage it rapidly attracted acolytes. Peer review soon rapidly evolved from the old style refereeing to a much more sinister imposition of The Censorship. As Wegman demonstrated, new circles of like-minded propagandists formed, acting as judge and jury for each other. Above all, they acted in concert to keep out alien and hostile opinion. 'Peer review' developed into a mantra that was picked up by political activists who clearly had no idea of the procedures of science or its learned societies. It became an imprimatur of political acceptability, whose absence was equivalent to placement on the proscribed list," Brignell wrote.

Research by Australian climate data analyst John McLean revealed that the IPCC's peer-review process for the Summary for Policymakers leaves much to be desired. (LINK) (LINK) (LINK) & (LINK) McLean's research revealed that the UN IPCC peer-review process is "an illusion." McLean's study found that very few scientists are actively involved in the UN's peer-review process. The report contained devastating revelations to the central IPCC assertion that 'it is very highly likely that greenhouse gas forcing has been the dominant cause of the observed global warming over the last 50 years." The analysis by McLean states: "The IPCC leads us to believe that this statement is very much supported by the majority of reviewers. The reality is that there is surprisingly little explicit support for this key notion. Among the 23 independent reviewers just 4 explicitly endorsed the chapter with its hypothesis, and one other endorsed only a specific section. Moreover, only 62 of the IPCC's 308 reviewers commented on this chapter at all." Repeating: Only four UN scientists in the IPCC peer-review process explicitly endorsed the key chapter blaming mankind for warming the past 50 years, according to this recent analysis.

Snip

http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/08/21/ … ck-report/

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#14 2017-02-12 22:17:44

alor
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Re: Climate change resource

Court Jester wrote:

I said it in that thread and Ill say it here :

Climate change IS a lie.

just like fake news. they are so real, no one want to even watch them smile

if they do not seems real, no one would believe them, they look as real tongue


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#15 2017-02-12 22:38:20

Aureus
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Re: Climate change resource

southerncross wrote:
Court Jester wrote:

I said it in that thread and Ill say it here :

Climate change IS a lie.

No it's not, Climate does change. Catastrophic human induced climate change caused by the emission of Co2 is a LIE though.

There is not a single iota of evidence that the human production of Co2 has any effect on the climate whatsoever, despite the Trillions spent and over twenty years of trying to prove it.

This sums up my opinion as well, and I am very open to seeing proof either way.
It's happening naturally until proven otherwise.


An investment in knowledge pays the best interest.

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#16 2017-02-12 22:45:44

alor
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Re: Climate change resource


Hear Say See -> N o t h i n g
May this stacking hobby be my blessing smile

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#17 2017-02-13 07:18:20

LovingtheSilver
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Re: Climate change resource

They always go on about reducing CO2, how about targeting and reducing deforestation instead?

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#18 2017-02-13 09:40:53

JulieW
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Re: Climate change resource

Massive extinction event going on now. Last time extinctions happened like this it was dinosaurs disappearing. This time it is human activity. Pollution, acid rain, deforestation, disrupted food chains, and climate change.

Deny, or not, it doesn't change the fact that human activity is destroying the environment we need to survive as a species.

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#19 2017-02-13 13:11:01

southerncross
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Re: Climate change resource

JulieW wrote:

Massive extinction event going on now. Last time extinctions happened like this it was dinosaurs disappearing. This time it is human activity. Pollution, acid rain, deforestation, disrupted food chains, and climate change.

Deny, or not, it doesn't change the fact that human activity is destroying the environment we need to survive as a species.


New species found each year,

Luckily, even after 250 years of professionals documenting thousands of new plants and animals every year, the rate at which new species are discovered remains relatively stable. Somewhere between 15,000 and 18,000 new species are identified each year, with about half of those being insects. However, that number is somewhat misleading: it also includes the correction of taxonomic mistakes, movements from one family to another, and decisions that will end up being overruled in years to come.

http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/new-animal-species

Species Extinct each year

Just to illustrate the degree of biodiversity loss we're facing, let's take you through one scientific analysis...

    The rapid loss of species we are seeing today is estimated by experts to be between 1,000 and 10,000 times higher than the natural extinction rate.*
    These experts calculate that between 0.01 and 0.1% of all species will become extinct each year.
    If the low estimate of the number of species out there is true - i.e. that there are around 2 million different species on our planet** -  then that means between 200 and 2,000 extinctions      occur every year.
    But if the upper estimate of species numbers is true - that there are 100 million different species co-existing with us on our planet - then between 10,000 and 100,000 species are becoming extinct each year.

*Experts actually call this natural extinction rate the background extinction rate. This simply means the rate of species extinctions that would occur if we humans were not around.

** Between 1.4 and 1.8 million species have already been scientifically identified. ***

http://wwf.panda.org/about_our_earth/bi … diversity/


Number of extinctions attributed to climate change... Maybe one highly doubtful separate species of Rat existing on a low lying Atoll in the Torres Straight , although there is no actual proof that it was a separate species of Melomys or that it is actually extinct so far. HT to Jules for that one hmm

*** This quote is taken from one of the most highly Human hating groups on the planet, WWF who have quite the track record for alarmist propaganda and were directly responsible for the so called World Class IPCC debacle of telling us all that Himalayan Glacier's would all be gone within three hundred years, The GBR was nearly all dead and that the Planet was headed for never ending drought and all due to Climate Change caused by Humans. 

I think we can all agree, no matter what side of the Co2 argument that we are on that we would much rather preserve every bit of the wildlife that is still left on the Planet. But at the same time I absolutely condemn the absurd waste of resources and dollars, time and effort that has been spent on the FAKE Post Modern Science of Human Induced Climate Change by the Global Green, Socialist, Communist, Progressives in order to subvert the success' of Western society.

Just take a look at any map that shows a global perspective of nature reserves, national parks, protected fishing zones or marine parks, laws that are enforced for environmental damage, pollution or harm to both people or the environment. Then compare the same demographics for cheap available electricity over the last fifty years.

And don't try and pull the EVIL dominating West mantra with it either as it is a clear cut case of those with adequate sources of energy being able to drag themselves out of a populous dependent on chopping down and eating everything they can to survive . Those with adequate energy sources also have a lower or reducing population, better education and general income able to support their family's overall instead of relying upon bushmeat such as Lemurs and Monkeys and burning down virgin rainforest's for mere survival.

Some of you people actually need to read some of the United Nations programs for just a general indication and education of what an unelected bureaucracy has in store for us all, not to mention what they have already achieved over the last few decades. Just a cursory look at some of those who make up this unelected and Orwellian group of New World Order types would have Hitler creaming his jockey pants with anticipation.

And all in the name of a completely unproven and Pseudo-scientific unproven theory that has already been debunked numerous times by their own evidence already.

Here is just a very small taste of what makes up the likes of the UN and those who support them. Take a good long look at thier statements and thoughts as this is the type of mentality that is running the whole show. These people hold the whole of humanity with contempt, except for themselves.

See if you can make it to the end, cause there is a lot more after the link is snipped as well, and take note of the Names.

Quotes by H.L. Mencken, famous columnist: "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed — and hence clamorous to be led to safety — by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." And, "The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the urge to rule it."

We start with Mencken's quotes because they are so well known from the past, but yet still so relevant so many years later. His past insights to those whose lives are addicted to the seeking of power, or control, or fame, or money is still as valid today, as it was 70 years ago. Below are quotes from the powerful; the rich; the religious; the studious; the famous; the fanatics; and, the aspiring, all sharing a common theme of keeping "the populace alarmed" to further their own personal, selfish goals.

The threat to the world is not man-made global warming or climate change. The threat to the world, as is always the case, is a current group(s) of humans who want to impose their values and desires on others. The people below represent such a group, and they are not saints as individuals; in fact, quite the opposite, unfortunately.

Once you read the below quotes, come back and re-read the previous paragraph. The threat to the world is not man-made global warming or climate change. The threat to the world, as is always the case, is a current group(s) of humans who want to impose an 'Agenda' based on their elite values and self-importance. The people below represent such a group, and they are not saints as individuals; in fact, quite the opposite, unfortunately.



Quote by Paul Watson, a founder of Greenpeace: "It doesn't matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true."

Quote by Jim Sibbison, environmental journalist, former public relations official for the Environmental Protection Agency: "We routinely wrote scare stories...Our press reports were more or less true...We were out to whip the public into a frenzy about the environment."

Quote by emeritus professor Daniel Botkin: "The only way to get our society to truly change is to frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe."

Quote by David Suzuki, celebrity scientist, alarmist extraordinaire: 1990 quote: "More than any other time in history, the 1990s will be a turning point for human civilization."

Quote by David Suzuki, celebrity scientist, alarmist extraordinaire: 2011 quote: "Humanity is facing a challenge unlike any we've ever had to confront. We are in an unprecedented period of change."

Quote by Robert Stavins, the head of Harvard's Environmental Economics program: "It's unlikely that the U.S. is going to take serious action on climate change until there are observable, dramatic events, almost catastrophic in nature, that drive public opinion and drive the political process in that direction."

Quote by Al Gore, former U.S. vice president, and large CO2 producer: "I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis."

Quote by Stephen Schneider, Stanford Univ., environmentalist: "That, of course, entails getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have."

Quote by Sir John Houghton, pompous lead editor of first three IPCC reports: "If we want a good environmental policy in the future we'll have to have a disaster."

Quote from Monika Kopacz, atmospheric scientist: "It is no secret that a lot of climate-change research is subject to opinion, that climate models sometimes disagree even on the signs of the future changes (e.g. drier vs. wetter future climate). The problem is, only sensational exaggeration makes the kind of story that will get politicians' — and readers' — attention. So, yes, climate scientists might exaggerate, but in today's world, this is the only way to assure any political action and thus more federal financing to reduce the scientific uncertainty."

Quote by Steve Sawyer, identified as the "political director" of Greenpeace International: "Without urgent measures to rapidly reduce our greenhouse gas emissions, the possibility of limiting the temperature rise below a dangerous level will have disappeared within a decade."

Quote by Al Gore, former U.S. vice president, and large CO2 producer: "We are running out of time, we must have a planetary solution to a planetary crisis."

Quote by Jim Leape, the man in charge of the head office of the World Wildlife Fund: "We are running out of time. We know that if we continue to rely on fossil fuels we will face a future of worsening air pollution and an increasingly inhospitable climate."

Quote by Greenpeace spokesperson: "we are simply running out of time."

Quote from a Worldwatch Institute press release: "the world is running out of time to head off catastrophic climate change…now is the time to act."

Quote from The Environmental Forum: "We are running out of time."

Quote from Time magazine: "we are rapidly running out of time to cap carbon emissions."

Quote by James Hansen, the famous climate scientist warned (in 2008 & 2013): "we're running out of time."

Quote by Stefan Rahmstorf, a climate scientist legend in his own mind: "we are now running out of time."

Quote from alarmist, Australian professor Barry Brook: "This is especially true for climate change and environmental sustainability, where we are perilously close to running out of time."

Quote by Secretary General of the United Nations tells business leaders at summit: "running out of time" to make climate change a strategic priority.

Quote by Ian Bruce, a climate change specialist for David Suzuki Foundation: "We're running out of time and we need to change the mass way of thinking."

Quote by a co-director of the Australian Youth Climate Coalition: "I know we're running out of time."

Quote by Paul Beckwith, Laboratory for Paleoclimatology and Climatology: "We're undergoing the early stages of abrupt climate change."

Quote by Chris Folland of UK Meteorological Office: "The data don't matter. We're not basing our recommendations [for reductions in carbon dioxide emissions] upon the data. We're basing them upon the climate models."

Quote by David Frame, climate modeler, Oxford University: "Rather than seeing models as describing literal truth, we ought to see them as convenient fictions which try to provide something useful."

Quote by Christine Stewart, former Canadian Environment Minister: "No matter if the science is all phoney, there are collateral environmental benefits.... climate change [provides] the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world."

Quote by Timoth Wirth, U.S./UN functionary, former elected Democrat Senator: "We've got to ride the global-warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic policy and environmental policy."

Quote by Richard Benedik, former U.S./UN bureaucrat: "A global climate treaty must be implemented even if there is no scientific evidence to back the greenhouse effect."

Quote by Al Gore, former U.S. vice president, and large CO2 producer: "Humankind has suddenly entered into a brand new relationship with our planet.  Unless we quickly and profoundly change the course of our civilization, we face an immediate and grave danger of destroying the worldwide ecological system that sustains life as we know it."

Quote from the UN's Own "Agenda 21": "Effective execution of Agenda 21 will require a profound reorientation of all human society, unlike anything the world has ever experienced a major shift in the priorities of both governments and individuals and an unprecedented redeployment of human and financial resources. This shift will demand that a concern for the environmental consequences of every human action be integrated into individual and collective decision-making at every level."

Quote by Ottmar Edenhoffer, high level UN-IPCC official:  "We redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy...Basically it's a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization...One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore."

Quote by Naomi Klein, anti-capitalism, pro-hysteria advocate of global warming: "So the need for another economic model is urgent, and if the climate justice movement can show that responding to climate change is the best chance for a more just economic system..."

Quote by Club of Rome: "In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill....All these dangers are caused by human intervention....and thus the "real enemy, then, is humanity itself....believe humanity requires a common motivation, namely a common adversary in order to realize world government. It does not matter if this common enemy is "a real one or….one invented for the purpose."

Quote by Maurice Strong, a billionaire elitist, primary power behind UN throne, and large CO2 producer: "Isn't the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn't it our responsibility to bring that about?"

Quote by Gus Hall, former leader of the Communist Party USA: "Human society cannot basically stop the destruction of the environment under capitalism. Socialism is the only structure that makes it possible."

Quote by Daphne Muller, green-progressive-liberal writer for Salon: "This moment requires we the people to rethink democracy as a global mechanism for enacting policy for and by the planet."

Quote by Christiana Figueres, leader of the U.N.'s Framework Convention on Climate Change: "This is probably the most difficult task we have ever given ourselves, which is to intentionally transform the economic development model, for the first time in human history."

Quote by Peter Berle, President of the National Audubon Society: "We reject the idea of private property."

Quote by Jack Trevors, Editor-in-Chief of Water, Air, & Soil Pollution: "The capitalistic systems of economy follow the one principal rule: the rule of profit making. All else must bow down to this rule…The current USA is an example of a failed capitalistic state in which essential long-term goals such as prevention of climate change and limitation of human population growth are subjugated to the short-term profit motive and the principle of economic growth."

Quote by Judi Bari, an American environmentalist and labor leader, a feminist, and the principal organizer of Earth First!: "I think if we don't overthrow capitalism, we don't have a chance of saving the world ecologically,"

Quote by Naomi Klein, anti-capitalism, pro-hysteria advocate of global warming: "It is the fight for a new economy, a new energy system, a new democracy, a new relationship to the planet and to each other, for land, water, and food sovereignty, for Indigenous rights, for human rights and dignity for all people. When climate justice wins we win the world that we want.

Quote by David Brower, a founder of the Sierra Club: "The goal now is a socialist, redistributionist society, which is nature's proper steward and society's only hope."

Quote by UN chief Ban Ki-moon: "Now it is the least developed world who are not responsible for this climate change phenomenon that bore the brunt of climate change consequences so it is morally and politically correct that the developed world who made this climate change be responsible by providing financial support and technological support to these people."

Quote by David Rockefeller, heir to billion dollar fortune: "We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis..."

Quote by Helen Caldicott, an Australian physician and a leading member of the Union of Concerned Scientists: "Free Enterprise really means rich people get richer. They have the freedom to exploit and psychologically rape their fellow human beings in the process...Capitalism is destroying the earth."

Quote by Judi Dench, famous UK actress: "The need for a global structure of control in the form of a world environment court is now more urgent than ever before."

Quote by Naomi Klein, anti-capitalism, pro-hysteria advocate of global warming: "We cannot change the laws of nature. But we can change our economy. Climate change is our best chance to demand and build a better world."

Quote by Thomas Stocker, IPCC "scientist" and climate modeler: "We need to devise a plan where all sectors of society contribute to the grand goal of de-carbonizing society."

Quote by Club of Rome: "A keen and anxious awareness is evolving to suggest that fundamental changes will have to take place in the world order and its power structures, in the distribution of wealth and income."

Quote by Mikhail Gorbachev, communist and former leader of U.S.S.R.: "The emerging 'environmentalization' of our civilization and the need for vigorous action in the interest of the entire global community will inevitably have multiple political consequences. Perhaps the most important of them will be a gradual change in the status of the United Nations. Inevitably, it must assume some aspects of a world government."

Quote by Gordon Brown, former British prime minister: "A New World Order is required to deal with the Climate Change crisis."

Quote by Club of Rome:  "Now is the time to draw up a master plan for sustainable growth and world development based on global allocation of all resources and a new global economic system. Ten or twenty years form today it will probably be too late."

Quote by Lester Brown, founder of the Worldwatch Institute, and founder and president of the Earth Policy Institute: "Nations are in effect ceding portions of their sovereignty to the international community and beginning to create a new system of international environmental governance."

Quote by Dixy Lee Ray, former liberal Democrat governor of State of Washington, U.S.: "The objective, clearly enunciated by the leaders of UNCED, is to bring about a change in the present system of independent nations. The future is to be World Government with central planning by the United Nations. Fear of environmental crises - whether real or not - is expected to lead to – compliance"

Quote by UN's Commission on Global Governance: "The concept of national sovereignty has been immutable, indeed a sacred principle of international relations. It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation."

Quote by David Shearman, an IPCC Assessor for 3rd and 4th climate change reports: "Government in the future will be based upon . . . a supreme office of the biosphere. The office will comprise specially trained philosopher/ecologists. These guardians will either rule themselves or advise an authoritarian government of policies based on their ecological training and philosophical sensitivities. These guardians will be specially trained for the task."

Quote by John Holdren, President Obama's science czar: "A massive campaign must be launched to restore a high-quality environment in North America and to de-develop the United States...De-development means bringing our economic system (especially patterns of consumption) into line with the realities of ecology and the global resource situation...Redistribution of wealth both within and among nations is absolutely essential, if a decent life is to be provided for every human being."

Quote by Al Gore, former U.S. vice president, mega-millionaire, and large CO2 producer: "Adopting a central organizing principle means embarking on an all-out effort to use every policy and program, every law and institution, to halt the destruction of the environment."

Quote by Ban Ki-Moon, UN Secretary General: "A deal must include an equitable global governance structure. All countries must have a voice in how resources are deployed and managed."

Quote by EU Environment Commissioner Margot Wallstroem: "[Kyoto protocol] is not a simple environmental issue, where you can say scientists are not unanimous. This is about international relations, this is about the economy, about trying to create a level playing field for big businesses throughout the world. You have to understand what is at stake, and that is why it is serious,..."

Quote by Robert Muller, former UN Assistant Secretary General: "In my view, after fifty years of service in the United National system, I perceive the utmost urgency and absolute necessity for proper Earth government.  There is no shadow of a doubt that the present political and economic systems are no longer appropriate and will lead to the end of life evolution on this planet.  We must therefore absolutely and urgently look for new ways."

Quote by Jacques Chirac, former French President: "For the first time, humanity is instituting a genuine instrument [Kyoto Protocol] of global governance,"..."By acting together, by building this unprecedented instrument, the first component of an authentic global governance, we are working for dialogue and peace."

Quote by Earth Charter, an environmental organization: "Radical change from the current trajectory is not an option, but an absolute necessity. Fundamental economic, social and cultural changes that address the root causes of poverty and environmental degradation are required and they are required now."

Quote by Hans Joachim Schellnhuber, architect of the new Germanic masterplan, the 'Great Transformation': "Either the Earth System would undergo major phase transitions as a result of unchecked human pressure on nature's capacities and resources or a "Great Transformation" towards global sustainability would be initiated in due course. Neither transitions nor transformations will be manageable without novel forms of global governance and markets..."

Quote by UN's Commission on Global Governance: "Regionalism must precede globalism. We foresee a seamless system of governance from local communities, individual states, regional unions and up through to the United Nations itself."

Quote by Al Gore, former U.S. vice president, mega-millionaire, and large CO2 producer: "We are close to a time when all of humankind will envision a global agenda that encompasses a kind of Global Marshall Plan to address the causes of poverty and suffering and environmental destruction all over the earth."

Quote by Barbara Stocking, chief executive of Oxfam in Britain: "Funding from rich countries to help the poor and vulnerable adapt to climate change is not even one percent of what is needed. This glaring injustice must be addressed at Copenhagen in December [2009]."

Quote by Emma Brindal, a climate justice campaigner coordinator for Friends of the Earth: "A climate change response must have at its heart a redistribution of wealth and resources."

Quote by Michael Oppenheimer, major environmentalist: "The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States. We can't let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the US. We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are."

Quote by Louis Proyect, Columbia University: "The answer to global warming is in the abolition of private property and production for human need. A socialist world would place an enormous priority on alternative energy sources. This is what ecologically-minded socialists have been exploring for quite some time now."

Quote by Walden Bello, leftist and founding director of Focus on the Global South: "However it is achieved, a thorough reorganisation of production, consumption and distribution will be the end result of humanity's response to the climate emergency and the broader environmental crisis."

Quote by UK's Keith Farnish, environmental writer, philosopher and activist: "The only way to prevent global ecological collapse and thus ensure the survival of humanity is to rid the world of Industrial Civilization...Unloading essentially means the removal of an existing burden: for instance, removing grazing domesticated animals, razing cities to the ground, blowing up dams and switching off the greenhouse gas emissions machine."

Quote by James Lovelock, known as founder of 'Gaia' concept: "I have a feeling that climate change may be an issue as severe as a war. It may be necessary to put democracy on hold for a while."

Quote by Club of Rome: "Democracy is not a panacea. It cannot organize everything and it is unaware of its own limits. These facts must be faced squarely. Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well suited for the tasks ahead. The complexity and the technical nature of many of today's problems do not always allow elected representatives to make competent decisions at the right time."

Quote by Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury: "We must support government coercion over enforcing international protocols and speed limits on motorways if we want the global economy not to collapse and millions, billions of people to die."

Quote by Paula Snyder, an America promoter of green causes: "Greed is the enemy - the underlying problem is greed, and that leads into most of the problems with the ecological system and the political system...I wish I could make a total redistribution [of wealth]...Things are going to change. They have to."

Quote by Jeffery Sachs, Columbia University, Director of The Earth Institute: "Obama is already setting a new historic course by reorienting the economy from private consumption to public investments...free-market pundits bemoan the evident intention of Obama and team to 'tell us what kind of car to drive'. Yet that is exactly what they intend to do...and rightly so. Free-market ideology is an anachronism in an era of climate change."

Quote by René Dubos, French scientist, environmentalist, author of the maxim "Think globally, act locally": "Our salvation depends upon our ability to create a religion of nature."

Quote by Rajendra Pachauri, head of the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) from 2002 to 2015: "For me the protection of Planet Earth, the survival of all species and the sustainability of our ecosystems is more than a mission. It is my religion and my dharma."

Quote by Al Gore, former U.S. vice president, mega-millionaire, and large CO2 producer: "The fate of mankind, as well as religion, depends on the emergence of a new faith in the future. Armed with such a faith, we might find it possible to resanctify the earth."

Quote by Mikhail Gorbachev, communist and former leader of U.S.S.R.: "I envisage the prinicles of the Earth Charter to be a new form of the ten commandments. They lay the foundation for a sustainable global earth community."

Quote by Prabhath P., environmentalist and member of Intuition Network: "The spirit of our planet is stirring! The Consciousness of Goddess Earth is now rising against all odds, in spite of millennia of suppression, repression and oppression inflicted on Her by a hubristic and misguided humanity. The Earth is a living entity, a biological organism with psychic and spiritual dimensions."

Quote by Club of Rome: "The greatest hope for the Earth lies in religionists and scientists uniting to awaken the world to its near fatal predicament and then leading mankind out of the bewildering maze of international crises into the future Utopia of humanist hope."

Quote by David Suzuki, celebrity scientist, alarmist extraordinaire: "All life on Earth is our kin. And in an act of generosity, our relatives create the four sacred elements for us."..."We have become a force of nature...Not long ago, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, drought, forest fires, even earthquakes and volcanic explosions were accepted as "natural disasters or "acts of God."  But now, we have joined God, powerful enough to influence these events."

Quote by Robert Muller, former UN Assistant Secretary General: "Little by little a planetary prayer book is thus being composed by an increasingly united humanity seeking its oneness. Once again, but this time on a universal scale, humankind is seeking no less than its reunion with 'divine,' its transcendence into higher forms of life."

Quote by Maurice Strong, a wealthy elitist and primary power behind UN throne, and large CO2 producer:  "It is the responsibility of each human being today to choose between the force of darkness and the force of light. We must therefore transform our attitudes, and adopt a renewed respect for the superior laws of Divine Nature."

Quote by Mikhail Gorbachev, communist and former leader of U.S.S.R.: "Nature is my god. To me, nature is sacred; trees are my temples and forests are my cathedrals."

Quote by Global Education Associates, an environmental education group: Their daily Earth pledge - "I pledge allegiance to the Earth and all its sacred parts. Its water, land and living things and all its human hearts."

Quote by Paul Ehrlich, professor, Stanford University: "Giving society cheap, abundant energy would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun."

Quote by Jeremy Rifkin, Greenhouse Crisis Foundation: "The prospect of cheap fusion energy is the worst thing that could happen to the planet."

Quote by Paul Ehrlich, professor, Stanford University: "We contend that the position of the nuclear promoters is preposterous beyond the wildest imaginings of most nuclear opponents, primarily because one of the purported "benefits" of nuclear power, the availability of cheap and abundant energy, is in fact a liability."

Quote by Club of Rome: "The Earth has cancer and the cancer is Man."

Quote by John Davis, editor of Earth First! journal: "Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs."

Quote by Paul Ehrlich, professor, Stanford University: "A cancer is an uncontrolled multiplication of cells; the population explosion is an uncontrolled multiplication of people. We must shift our efforts from the treatment of the symptoms to the cutting out of the cancer."

Quote by John Holdren, President Obama's science czar: "There exists ample authority under which population growth could be regulated...It has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society."

Quote by Christopher Manes, a writer for Earth First! journal: "The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing."

Quote by Ted Turner, billionaire, founder of CNN and major UN donor, and large CO2 producer: "A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal."

Quote by David Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!: "My three main goals would be to reduce human population to about 100 million worldwide, destroy the industrial infrastructure and see wilderness, with it's full complement of species, returning throughout the world."

Quote by David Brower, a founder of the Sierra Club: "Childbearing should be a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license. All potential parents should be required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing."

Quote by Club of Rome: "...the resultant ideal sustainable population is hence more than 500 million people but less than one billion."

Quote by Susan Blakemore, a UK Guardian science journalist: "For the planet's sake, I hope we have bird flu or some other thing that will reduce the population, because otherwise we're doomed."

Quote by Paul Ehrlich, professor, Stanford University: "The addition of a temporary sterilant to staple food, or to the water supply. With limited distribution of antidote chemicals, perhaps by lottery".

Quote by Prince Philip, royal billionaire, married to Queen Elizabeth II, and large CO2 producer: "I don't claim to have any special interest in natural history, but as a boy I was made aware of the annual fluctuations in the number of game animals and the need to adjust the cull to the size of the surplus population."

Quote by Bill Gates, Microsoft billionaire, and large CO2 producer: "The world today has 6.8 billion people...that's headed up to about 9 billion. If we do a really great job on vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 to 15 percent."

Quote by Hans Joachim Schellnhuber, architect of the new Germanic masterplan, the 'Great Transformation': "When you imagine that if all these 9 billion people claim all these resources, then the earth will explode."

Quote by Jacques Cousteau, mega-celebrity French scientist: "In order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 per day."

Quote by UN Commission on Global Biodiversity Assessment: "A reasonable estimate for an industrialized world society at the present North American material standard of living would be 1 billion. At the more frugal European standard of living, 2 to 3 billion would be possible."

Quote by John Miller, a NOAA climate scientist: "I would be remiss, as a scientist who studied this, if I didn't mention the following two things: The first is that, most importantly, we need to do, as a society, in this country and globally, whatever we can to reduce population"....."Our whole economic system is based on growth, and growth of our population, and this economic madness has to end."

Quote by John Davis, editor of Earth First! journal: "I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems."

Quote by Prince Philip, royal billionaire, married to Queen Elizabeth II, and large CO2 producer: "If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to Earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels."

Quote by Ingrid Newkirk, a former PETA President: "The extinction of Homo Sapiens would mean survival for millions, if not billions, of Earth-dwelling species. Phasing out the human race will solve every problem on Earth - social and environmental."

Quote by Ted Turner, billionaire, founder of CNN and major UN donor, and large CO2 producer: "There are too many people, that's why we have global warming. We have global warming because too many people are using too much stuff."

Quote by James Lovelock, known as founder of 'Gaia' concept: "The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil."

Quote by Nina Vsevolod Fedoroff, science advisor to U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton: "There are probably already too many people on the planet."

Quote by Al Gore, former U.S. vice president, mega-millionaire, and large CO2 producer: "Third world nations are producing too many children too fast...it is time to ignore the controversy over family planning and cut out-of-control population growth..."

Quote by Susan Blakemore, a UK Guardian science journalist: "Finally, we might decide that civilisation itself is worth preserving. In that case we have to work out what to save and which people would be needed in a drastically reduced population – weighing the value of scientists and musicians against that of politicians, for example."

Quote by David Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!: "We advocate biodiversity for biodiversity's sake. It may take our extinction to set things straight."

Quote by Harry Reid, Democrat, U.S. Senate majority leader: "Coal makes us sick. Oil makes us sick. It's global warming. It's ruining our country. It's ruining our world."

Quote by Osama bin Laden, terrorist leader behind 9/11 plot & attacks: "In fact, the life of all mankind is in danger because of global warming resulting to a large degree from the emissions of the factories of the major corporations; yet despite that, the representative of these corporations in the White House insists on not observing the Kyoto accord, with the knowledge that the statistics speak of the death and displacement of millions of human beings because of global warming, especially in Africa."

Quote by David Suzuki, celebrity scientist, alarmist extraordinaire: "What I would challenge you to do is to put a lot of effort into trying to see whether there's a legal way of throwing our so-called leaders into jail because what they're doing is a criminal act."

and on and on SNIP  http://www.c3headlines.com/global-warmi … uotes.html

Last edited by southerncross (2017-02-13 13:16:13)

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#20 2017-02-13 17:53:45

GoldenEye
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Re: Climate change resource

JulieW wrote:

Deny, or not, it doesn't change the fact that human activity is destroying the environment we need to survive as a species.

But CO2 is the least of our problems. Why aren't we using these resources to fix real environmental and other problems?

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#21 2017-02-13 21:03:04

mmissinglink
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Re: Climate change resource

SpacePete wrote:

...the Heartland Institute launches a new report Climate Change Reconsidered. To write the report, Heartland assembled a group it calls the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC), a particularly revealing choice of name. The name, combined with the timing of the release to coincide with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)'s upcoming Fifth Assessment Report (AR5), shows that Heartland is attempting to present itself as a legitimate alternative authority to the IPCC.

The Heartland Institute's Credibility

The Heartland Institute has a long history of valuing the interests of its financial backers over the conclusions of experts. It has campaigned against the threats posed by second-hand smoke, acid rain, and ozone depletion, as well as the Endangered Species Act. With its aggressive campaigning using tools such as billboards comparing climate change "believers" to the Unabomber, Heartland makes no pretense at being a scientific organization.

Heartland's funding over the past decade has included thousands of dollars directly from ExxonMobil and the American Petroleum Institute, but a large portion of their funding ($25.6 million) comes from the shadowy Donor's Capital Fund, created expressly to conceal the identity of large donors to free-market causes. The Koch brothers appear to be funneling money into Donor's Capital via their Knowledge and Progress Fund.

Heartland's credibility has been so damaged that mainstream funders have been abandoning the organization, and it has been forced to discontinue its annual climate conference.

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/2013 … lity-test/



Climate change deniers are so desperate in their desire to see only a tiny sliver of the entire picture, they will believe any corporate b.s. and cockamamie conspiracy theories and regurgitate that ludicrous narrative.




.


In some ways, we are not that different

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#22 2017-02-13 22:27:06

JulieW
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Registered: 2010-10-14
Posts: 11,099

Re: Climate change resource

Humans have ruined their environment and there is no fix on the horizon. Perhaps a massive worldwide famine will spur some action, but apart from that it will be business as usual.


Man made or not, the fact is that the climate is changing. Patterns becoming more extreme, outcomes more dramatic. It's happened hundreds of times before and massive migrations have resulted because of the change in climate and the consequent famines driving populations toward food.

Polar bears are heading south for food and record numbers of sharks are chasing shoals into warm coastal waters. Massive ice formations are disappearing and nature is calling out but we just ignore it and keep burning and pillaging.

I hope my old bones don't end up in a cooking pot, and if I had grandkids I'd be sorting out a survival strategy with them - and not just some quasi-billionaire bunker strategy either.

Earth will abide, but to believe we can continue on earth as we currently are, destroying our environment in the hope that technology or some magic man in the sky will fix it, is fatal thinking.

Live small is all we can do. Don't buy into the throwaway consumer culture. Live simply and don't consume more than you need. Don't support polluters and thieves. There are no other solutions.

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#23 2017-02-13 23:19:09

mmissinglink
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Re: Climate change resource

Logic tells me that 97% of climate scientists aren't part of some Right Wing concocted nefarious conspiracy theory.....but instead are providing us the best insights into the truth that climate change is impacted notably or significantly by modern human activity......  http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/


Right Wingers are even more lunatic and particularly more wacky conspiracy theory-crazy than the Left.




.

Last edited by mmissinglink (2017-02-13 23:22:17)


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#24 2017-02-14 00:58:24

gingham69
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Re: Climate change resource

Whether you believe or not??
Humans will adapt whatever happens as climate change has been going on for an eternity some millions and millions of years and
we only know a miniscule of what this planet is capable of so only the strong, very smart and rich will survive.
Lets face it far too many people on the planet now so does anyone honestly think it will change...get real, who cares anyway as caring
won't change it as the people who control things don't care only about their own self indulgent lives!!
Humans are just greedy and selfish and have got so much worse over the last 100 years so honestly ask yourself do you
really think it's going to change?? Absolutely not! Imo.

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#25 2017-02-14 01:09:42

fosinator
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Re: Climate change resource

"Scarcely a day goes by without us being warned of coastal inundation by rising seas due to global warming.

Why on earth do we attribute any heating of the oceans to carbon dioxide, when there is a far more obvious culprit, and when such a straightforward examination of the thermodynamics render it impossible.


Carbon dioxide, we are told, traps heat that has been irradiated by the oceans, and this warms the oceans and melts the polar ice caps. While this seems a plausible proposition at first glance, when one actually examines it closely a major flaw emerges.

In a nutshell, water takes a lot of energy to heat up, and air doesn't contain much. In fact, on a volume/volume basis, the ratio of heat capacities is about 3300 to 1. This means that to heat 1 litre of water by 1˚C it would take 3300 litres of air that was 2˚C hotter, or 1 litre of air that was about 3300˚C hotter!

This shouldn't surprise anyone. If you ran a cold bath and then tried to heat it by putting a dozen heaters in the room, does anyone believe that the water would ever get hot?

The problem gets even stickier when you consider the size of the ocean. Basically, there is too much water and not enough air.

The ocean contains a colossal 1,500,000,000,000,000,000,000 litres of water! To heat it, even by a small amount, takes a staggering amount of energy. To heat it by a mere 1˚C, for example, an astonishing 6,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 joules of energy are required.

Let's put this amount of energy in perspective. If we all turned off all our appliances and went and lived in caves, and then devoted every coal, nuclear, gas, hydro, wind and solar power plant to just heating the ocean, it would take a breathtaking 32,000 years to heat the ocean by just this 1˚C!

In short, our influence on our climate, even if we really tried, is miniscule!

So it makes sense to ask the question – if the ocean were to be heated by 'greenhouse warming' of the atmosphere, how hot would the air have to get? If the entire ocean is heated by 1˚C, how much would the air have to be heated by to contain enough heat to do the job?

Well, unfortunately for every ton of water there is only a kilogram of air. Taking into account the relative heat capacities and absolute masses, we arrive at the astonishing figure of 4,000˚C.

That is, if we wanted to heat the entire ocean by 1˚C, and wanted to do it by heating the air above it, we'd have to heat the air to about 4,000˚C hotter than the water.

And another problem is that air sits on top of water – how would hot air heat deep into the ocean? Even if the surface warmed, the warm water would just sit on top of the cold water.

Thus, if the ocean were being heated by 'greenhouse heating' of the air, we would see a system with enormous thermal lag – for the ocean to be only slightly warmer, the land would have to be substantially warmer, and the air much, much warmer (to create the temperature gradient that would facilitate the transfer of heat from the air to the water).

Therefore any measurable warmth in the ocean would be accompanied by a huge and obvious anomaly in the air temperatures, and we would not have to bother looking at ocean temperatures at all.

So if the air doesn't contain enough energy to heat the oceans or melt the ice caps, what does?

The earth is tilted on its axis, and this gives us our seasons. When the southern hemisphere is tilted towards the sun, we have more direct sunlight and more of it (longer days). When it is tilted away from the sun, we have less direct sunlight and less of it (shorter days).

The direct result of this is that in summer it is hot and in winter it is cold. In winter we run the heaters in our cars, and in summer the air conditioners. In winter the polar caps freeze over and in summer 60-70% of them melt (about ten million square kilometres). In summer the water is warmer and winter it is cooler (ask any surfer).

All of these changes are directly determined by the amount of sunlight that we get. When the clouds clear and bathe us in sunlight, we don't take off our jumper because of 'greenhouse heating' of the atmosphere, but because of the direct heat caused by the sunlight on our body. The sun's influence is direct, obvious, and instantaneous.

If the enormous influence of the sun on our climate is so obvious, then, by what act of madness do we look at a variation of a fraction of a percent in any of these variables, and not look to the sun as the cause?

Why on earth (pun intended) do we attribute any heating of the oceans to carbon dioxide, when there is a far more obvious culprit, and when such a straightforward examination of the thermodynamics render it impossible."

http://principia-scientific.org/chemist … l-warming/

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