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#1 2017-01-20 23:27:39

bordsilver
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What is Populism?

I realised that I am getting sick of people using the word "populist" ("populism"). It is frequently trotted out in reference to things like Brexit, Trump or One Nation and is usually meant to be derogatory.

I suspect, however, that most people who use it have no clue what they mean by it (except possibly in reference to the great unwashed trying to usurp someone's authority through peaceful voting). It is a vague term that is applied to a wide range of issues right across the political spectrum.

A couple of weeks ago I went to a talk by one of our ex-ambassadors and he used the term liberally throughout his talk when discussing the state of European politics at the moment (sometimes in conflicting ways). In the question time I asked him what he meant by it precisely. Although he did have an answer (albeit a weak one, but having an answer did surprise me) it didn't really make much sense in the context of his narrative.

I think people need to start calling it out whenever they hear the term. Ask the person - What do you mean by that? Make them state more explicitly what it is that they are railing against. Presumably it is not "populism" that they do not like but some specific consequence of a given policy position.


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#2 2017-01-21 00:56:08

mmm....shiney!
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Re: What is Populism?

To me populism means a rising trend in ordinary or common thought, as opposed to that which is theoretical or academic. That doesn't mean it is sensible though. It trends because as it is ordinary and doesn't require any theory, it is easily spread through social media. As it currently stands in world events it's a rising trend associated with protectionism. And yes to me it's a derogatory term associated with dominance and Statism.

So you've got lots of dumb people increasingly making lots of demands for governments to enact lots of dumb policies. Yep, that's populism. cool

Last edited by mmm....shiney! (2017-01-21 00:56:58)


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#3 2017-01-21 01:59:25

southerncross
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Re: What is Populism?

It's the normal everyday person not doing as they are told or expected to when the manipulations of the establishment no longer work and people start to see through the programming they are fed via the MSM and the zero sum game offered by the ruling class.

It is a Label used by those accustomed to the docile sheeple accepting rule from above by the establishment, instead of such accustomed people being the servants of the people.

It is the silent majority finally expressing a will for change from condition as normal.

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#4 2017-01-21 04:57:56

Shaddam IV
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Re: What is Populism?

The common sense of the people who get up in the morning each day and do something useful asserting itself.

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#5 2017-01-21 06:01:59

Killface
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Re: What is Populism?

Populism is politicians (and others) acting in ways that produce snappy sound-bites and get instant media attention, without giving real thought to complicated issues or having sustainable solutions to real world problems.  It is politics played purely to increase popularity.

This is usually achieved by triggering fear reactions in the audience, since fear and hatred are much more visceral and easily controlled than our loftier impulses, like loving one another or celebrating our differences.

Uniting people against a common enemy is easy - and cynical, especially when suitable enemies don't exist and must be fabricated or provoked to fit the mould.  It results in a powerful, but unstable, emotional state of barely-harnessed rage.

Uniting people around principles of kindness, inclusion, liberty, empowerment, acceptance and equality takes a lot more work and is written off by many as being a futile waste of time.

Therefore, populism is a common political tool used by short-sighted 'leaders' lacking any real vision for a better world.  It is a tool of power for power's sake.

(Just my definition)


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#6 2017-01-21 06:14:50

mmm....shiney!
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Re: What is Populism?

HoldMeTender wrote:

It is politics played purely to increase popularity.

+1, the alliteration you've used is particularly persuasive. wink


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
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#7 2017-01-21 07:43:48

Killface
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Re: What is Populism?

mmm....shiney! wrote:
HoldMeTender wrote:

Populism: politics played purely to purchase popularity.

+1, the alliteration you've used is particularly persuasive. wink

New and improved smile


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#8 2017-01-21 08:28:23

southerncross
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Re: What is Populism?

HoldMeTender wrote:

Populism is politicians (and others) acting in ways that produce snappy sound-bites and get instant media attention, without giving real thought to complicated issues or having sustainable solutions to real world problems.  It is politics played purely to increase popularity.

So why is it that politicians from both sides IE the Right and Left are decrying the current rise of Populism around the globe and not able to subvert it to their own ends or provide sufficient policy to retain the millions of people jumping ship from both sides of traditional Political party's ?

This is usually achieved by triggering fear reactions in the audience, since fear and hatred are much more visceral and easily controlled than our loftier impulses, like loving one another or celebrating our differences.

Maybe, maybe not, but if one considers such things as uncontrolled immigration leading to the denigration and disintegration of ones culture, Terrorist attacks on your home soil, restrictions on the expression of free speech on social media and the introduction of State laws so that certain peoples feelings are not hurt or so that the criticism of such cultural changes are suppressed, is it any wonder that a silent majority become angry and feel viscerally about such things ?

Uniting people against a common enemy is easy - and cynical, especially when suitable enemies don't exist and must be fabricated or provoked to fit the mould.  It results in a powerful, but unstable, emotional state of barely-harnessed rage.

So we go from the people being "triggered" by fear and hatred and easily controlled, to searching for a suitable enemy that must be fabricated ? NO it is this sort of tripe that is the very foundation for the current rise in 'populism' and that is that people have just had enough of being told what, how, and why to think about what is happening to and in their country's. Sick of being labelled as uneducated, racist, backwards, homophobic, sexist, hateful etc if they dare voice concern for the way their and the lives of their children are being shaped and controlled by both elected and unelected establishment bureaucrats in far off lands.   

Uniting people around principles of kindness, inclusion, liberty, empowerment, acceptance and equality takes a lot more work and is written off by many as being a futile waste of time.

Therefore, populism is a common political tool used by short-sighted 'leaders' lacking any real vision for a better world.  It is a tool of power for power's sake.

(Just my definition)

If it was a common political tool it would not now be used as a label for those who voted for Brexit, elected Trump to the presidency of the United States and is currently being used as a tag for those supporters of the Right such as Marine le Pen and Geert Wilders in Europe . If it has not escaped your attention it is used as a derogatory form of description for those who support such Right leaning politicians.

All your talk of Kindness, Inclusion, liberty, empowerment, rainbows and Lollipops etc is right on par with the mantra we hear from the Utopian leftist fabian playbook of Taktics and the Leftist MSM.

This is the Human race you are talking about, not some socialist ideal dreamt up in a Hippy commune. The REAL WORLD is an harsh Dog eat Dog kind of place in which those who would do you harm care very little about your ideals and less about the rules and regulations that limit their behaviour. If you haven't noticed it is a world in which the Gov't of the day spies on your every internet post, phonecall, bank transaction, movement, and who knows what else while at the same time dreaming up new rules to control each one of these actions and creating others with which to charge you a fee in one way or another.

All the while they continue to allow ever more greater incursions of control into your so called sovereign state by outsiders such as the likes of the U.N and Trade treaty's with other third parties that either further limit your freedom of action or expose you to fees, costs, or other controls that you haven't even thought of yet.

All this idealistic talk of Kindness, Inclusion, liberty, empowerment, etc is all a one way street and the very second you question any of it at all you are labelled. Question the numbers, the cost, the risks, the origin, the results, the science, the facts, or god forbid question or mention Race, Sexual identity, Climate change, Crime rates associated with immigration, rape, immigration itself, same sex marriage or Radical Islam and you automatically acquire the label of either Racist, Sexist, Misogynist, Homophobic, Nazi, Alt Right, Fascist, or the new shiny tag of Populist Deplorable, which of late seems to denote and encompass all of the previous labels in a nice neat little package.

The short of it all is that it saves those with the Rainbow Unicorn mindset of peace love and unity amongst all mankind from having to pose a sufficient argument to support their point of view in this day and age. All they have to do is shout Populist, Racist, Homophobe, Denier, Fascist ect to quell any unsettling counter argument to their cause, Hence the new verbiage of .... Populism, when the truth of the matter becomes too hurtful for the Bum hurt little snowflakes, it is something they can shout instead of providing a cogent argument no matter what the subject.

And when the current crop of establishment Politicians from both the left and right start to lose their seats over the next few election cycles in the coming years, due to their inaction with the opinions and the concerns of the POPULIST vote and the likes of Pauline Hanson becomes the Premier of Queensland, we might see a realisation and a return of the Power to the people, instead of the establishment thinking they can just do as they please and not be answerable to their constituents.

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#9 2017-01-21 08:53:10

southerncross
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Re: What is Populism?

mmm....shiney! wrote:
HoldMeTender wrote:

It is politics played purely to increase popularity.

+1, the alliteration you've used is particularly persuasive. wink

If this is the case then why is it only those outside of the traditional Two party system that are denoted with such a label ?
And why is it that such support is derived from the voters of the current TP system ?
Maybe a lot of people are just waking up now to how and why they have been controlled, and are seeking a change.

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#10 2017-01-21 09:39:53

Killface
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Re: What is Populism?

southerncross wrote:
HoldMeTender wrote:

Populism is politicians (and others) acting in ways that produce snappy sound-bites and get instant media attention, without giving real thought to complicated issues or having sustainable solutions to real world problems.  It is politics played purely to increase popularity.

So why is it that politicians from both sides IE the Right and Left are decrying the current rise of Populism around the globe and not able to subvert it to their own ends or provide sufficient policy to retain the millions of people jumping ship from both sides of traditional Political party's ?

This is usually achieved by triggering fear reactions in the audience, since fear and hatred are much more visceral and easily controlled than our loftier impulses, like loving one another or celebrating our differences.

Maybe, maybe not, but if one considers such things as uncontrolled immigration leading to the denigration and disintegration of ones culture, Terrorist attacks on your home soil, restrictions on the expression of free speech on social media and the introduction of State laws so that certain peoples feelings are not hurt or so that the criticism of such cultural changes are suppressed, is it any wonder that a silent majority become angry and feel viscerally about such things ?

Uniting people against a common enemy is easy - and cynical, especially when suitable enemies don't exist and must be fabricated or provoked to fit the mould.  It results in a powerful, but unstable, emotional state of barely-harnessed rage.

So we go from the people being "triggered" by fear and hatred and easily controlled, to searching for a suitable enemy that must be fabricated ? NO it is this sort of tripe that is the very foundation for the current rise in 'populism' and that is that people have just had enough of being told what, how, and why to think about what is happening to and in their country's. Sick of being labelled as uneducated, racist, backwards, homophobic, sexist, hateful etc if they dare voice concern for the way their and the lives of their children are being shaped and controlled by both elected and unelected establishment bureaucrats in far off lands.   

Uniting people around principles of kindness, inclusion, liberty, empowerment, acceptance and equality takes a lot more work and is written off by many as being a futile waste of time.

Therefore, populism is a common political tool used by short-sighted 'leaders' lacking any real vision for a better world.  It is a tool of power for power's sake.

(Just my definition)

If it was a common political tool it would not now be used as a label for those who voted for Brexit, elected Trump to the presidency of the United States and is currently being used as a tag for those supporters of the Right such as Marine le Pen and Geert Wilders in Europe . If it has not escaped your attention it is used as a derogatory form of description for those who support such Right leaning politicians.

All your talk of Kindness, Inclusion, liberty, empowerment, rainbows and Lollipops etc is right on par with the mantra we hear from the Utopian leftist fabian playbook of Taktics and the Leftist MSM.

This is the Human race you are talking about, not some socialist ideal dreamt up in a Hippy commune. The REAL WORLD is an harsh Dog eat Dog kind of place in which those who would do you harm care very little about your ideals and less about the rules and regulations that limit their behaviour. If you haven't noticed it is a world in which the Gov't of the day spies on your every internet post, phonecall, bank transaction, movement, and who knows what else while at the same time dreaming up new rules to control each one of these actions and creating others with which to charge you a fee in one way or another.

All the while they continue to allow ever more greater incursions of control into your so called sovereign state by outsiders such as the likes of the U.N and Trade treaty's with other third parties that either further limit your freedom of action or expose you to fees, costs, or other controls that you haven't even thought of yet.

All this idealistic talk of Kindness, Inclusion, liberty, empowerment, etc is all a one way street and the very second you question any of it at all you are labelled. Question the numbers, the cost, the risks, the origin, the results, the science, the facts, or god forbid question or mention Race, Sexual identity, Climate change, Crime rates associated with immigration, rape, immigration itself, same sex marriage or Radical Islam and you automatically acquire the label of either Racist, Sexist, Misogynist, Homophobic, Nazi, Alt Right, Fascist, or the new shiny tag of Populist Deplorable, which of late seems to denote and encompass all of the previous labels in a nice neat little package.

The short of it all is that it saves those with the Rainbow Unicorn mindset of peace love and unity amongst all mankind from having to pose a sufficient argument to support their point of view in this day and age. All they have to do is shout Populist, Racist, Homophobe, Denier, Fascist ect to quell any unsettling counter argument to their cause, Hence the new verbiage of .... Populism, when the truth of the matter becomes too hurtful for the Bum hurt little snowflakes, it is something they can shout instead of providing a cogent argument no matter what the subject.

And when the current crop of establishment Politicians from both the left and right start to lose their seats over the next few election cycles in the coming years, due to their inaction with the opinions and the concerns of the POPULIST vote and the likes of Pauline Hanson becomes the Premier of Queensland, we might see a realisation and a return of the Power to the people, instead of the establishment thinking they can just do as they please and not be answerable to their constituents.

Well, who'd have thought, we have different definitions of the term.  Isn't that the whole point of this thread?

I would debate a couple of points with you though: One, that populist politics (and its sometimes disastrous consequences) is a new phenomenon.  I believe it was around in 1933 - and had a pretty good run until it brought the entire planet to its knees.  Scapegoating whole races or religions has huge mass appeal, because it pretends to provide a simple answer to problems we actually can't easily solve.  But the human cost is incalculable.  I don't think it is Utopian to believe we shouldn't engage in genocide, or that ending it is possible.

And before you get on the victim train, note I am not accusing you or anyone else of being a Nazi.  So don't try playing that card.

Second, you may be objecting to recent claims of populism 'against' your particular views, but the term isn't restricted to that debate.  Way too much of mainstream politics is based on populism too - focus grouped, reactive, and entirely lacking in vision.  Again, all about retaining (or gaining) positions of power.


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#11 2017-01-21 10:16:28

Currawong
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Re: What is Populism?

I think the vast majority of people who use the word populism as a pejorative are actually referring to and mean to use the word demagoguery. Which are two vastly different character qualities.

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#12 2017-01-21 11:07:08

southerncross
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Re: What is Populism?

HoldMeTender wrote:

Well, who'd have thought, we have different definitions of the term.  Isn't that the whole point of this thread?

I would debate a couple of points with you though: One, that populist politics (and its sometimes disastrous consequences) is a new phenomenon.  I believe it was around in 1933 - and had a pretty good run until it brought the entire planet to its knees.  Scapegoating whole races or religions has huge mass appeal, because it pretends to provide a simple answer to problems we actually can't easily solve.  But the human cost is incalculable.  I don't think it is Utopian to believe we shouldn't engage in genocide, or that ending it is possible.

And before you get on the victim train, note I am not accusing you or anyone else of being a Nazi.  So don't try playing that card.

Second, you may be objecting to recent claims of populism 'against' your particular views, but the term isn't restricted to that debate.  Way too much of mainstream politics is based on populism too - focus grouped, reactive, and entirely lacking in vision.  Again, all about retaining (or gaining) positions of power.

And right there is the big rub, you are equating today's current rise of the anti establishment voting in of an anti establishment President and others with that of the Nazi's quite plainly. You can try and avoid the implications of your post all you want,  but it is quite clear.

Who is scapegoating whole races or religions ? other than your mention of it ? Illegal Immigrants are just that, Illegal Immigrants, Islamic fundamentalist terrorists are just that. Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorist's. Just because normal everyday citizens of a country want to stop Illegal immigrants, want to stop Islamic terrorism does not equate to Nazi politics on their behalf.

Excluding such people from your country and stopping them at the border from entering your country does not equate to Nazi tactics either, it just makes good sense. How does control of your borders equate to genocide ? If you know that Heroin is being imported in lawnmowers and you investigate all lawnmowers that are imported into your country, is that engaging in genocide ?

How do you logically jump from a majority of people wanting to stop such obvious problems that are not being addressed in their country and voting for someone who does address such things to some conclusion that they are all just being manipulated by a person that is finally offering a solution that has not been offered up till now ?

Mainstream politics and Mainstream media are one and the same thing, they all preach from the same hymn sheet. All you need to know about the truth of that was expressed quite eloquently during the recent American election with 98% of the MSM telling us all that Donald Trump did not stand a chance of wining even the nomination of the Republican party let alone the Presidency.

Times have changed HMT, We no longer live in a world managed by the likes of Goebbels nor are we in the west restricted to the ministry of misinformation supplied by the MSM anymore. People are finally waking up to the fact that all they have known up till now is an orchestrated generated lie built to deceive them.

Just because a majority of people make a choice that is opposite to your own does not necessarily mean that they are somehow now all of a sudden under the influence of some demigod that is equivalent to Hitler. Just take a look at what the MSM and those who control it do to you and everyone else every day,  maybe they are the ones who are finally breaking free from the likes of Kochie and the Project etc ?

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#13 2017-01-21 12:08:46

Killface
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Re: What is Populism?

^^ Thanks for replying..  As Currawong points out, my personal definition of populism borrows a lot from demagoguery, because that's where I fear we are headed.

But the logical leaps you accuse me of are all yours, SC.  I didn't equate anything with Nazism, I pointed out a historical precedent.  I didn't mention border control, or terrorism, or even Trump. 

For someone who claims to see through the lies of the media you seem to swallow a fair bit of what they feed you.  Fear of refugees is whipped up by the media, fear of terrorists is whipped up by the media.. and those also happen to be central populist planks.  Not to mention convenient buttons for a demagogue to push.

Meanwhile, I am afraid of neither refugees nor terrorists.  Does that make me blind and ignorant, or just less prone to manipulation?  Maybe not obsessing over those subjects is actually a virtue.  Maybe they are the distractions.

And, cute video.  Goes to show that syndicated media lacks imagination.  That's probably why I avoid it.


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#14 2017-01-21 13:27:01

southerncross
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Re: What is Populism?

HoldMeTender wrote:

^^ Thanks for replying..  As Currawong points out, my personal definition of populism borrows a lot from demagoguery, because that's where I fear we are headed.

But the logical leaps you accuse me of are all yours, SC.  I didn't equate anything with Nazism, I pointed out a historical precedent.  I didn't mention border control, or terrorism, or even Trump. 

For someone who claims to see through the lies of the media you seem to swallow a fair bit of what they feed you.  Fear of refugees is whipped up by the media, fear of terrorists is whipped up by the media.. and those also happen to be central populist planks.  Not to mention convenient buttons for a demagogue to push.

Meanwhile, I am afraid of neither refugees nor terrorists.  Does that make me blind and ignorant, or just less prone to manipulation?  Maybe not obsessing over those subjects is actually a virtue.  Maybe they are the distractions.

And, cute video.  Goes to show that syndicated media lacks imagination.  That's probably why I avoid it.

So just who were you referring to with your comment about 1933 then  ?

I believe it was around in 1933 - and had a pretty good run until it brought the entire planet to its knees.

Don't take me for a bloody idiot and don't deny the intentions of your comment as it was quite clear with your so called 'historical precedent'. You are being quite intentionally naive trying to argue otherwise.

I don't fear refugees nor terrorists as I am quite prepared for either, but to argue that the MSM and the ruling class are not working together to placate the majority of Australian citizens to accept an En-Masse influx of Immigrants into Australia is not only naive but also ignorant as well. Do you really think that settling literally whole suburbs at a time of immigrants will lead to the integration and a well settled society in Australia's outer suburbs ? Literally whole suburbs of people with a different social, religious and cultural belief's all landed at once into an Australian society ?

Please excuse me if I am wrong and correct accordingly, but you strike me as an apologist for our current program of Immigration whereby we take in who ever from wherever no matter their origin or persuasion, we clothe, feed, house and support whomever and their family's and then allow the further importation/reunification of family's as well.

We do this over and over, all to the cost of current taxpayers and in the meantime set up whole ghettos of such people who refuse to learn English or even ever get a job with which they repay the supporting taxpayer for their support ?

Yet I am the one swallowing the 'media' story ? All you have to do is go and look at the facts and figures, go check just the crime statistics, the dole statistics, the prison statistics.

You see Populism as a problem from your own point of view which is obviously slanted towards a leftist and socialist point of view where we in the west should support every wanna be and every has not in today's society no matter where they come from.

I see a society that is obviously well ahead of others and is up there for a reason, we are better educated, abide by the current laws of our nation and have created a society that is successful.
Contrast that with the likes of the Apex Gang, the likes of the 25 Muslim's in prison at this point in time for terrorism offences in our country and those who seek to travel overseas to pose Jihad on the world not to mention those who have already tried on our home soil.

Is populism such a bad and terrible thing when all it is is an expression of wanting to preserve a way of life that millions upon millions have sought to aspire to and want to immigrate to?

I get the feeling that you want to distance yourself from those who embrace such patriotism and pride in being the descendants of those who created the free world as we know it today.

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#15 2017-01-21 14:13:51

Killface
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Re: What is Populism?

Wow that's a lot of words you have put in my mouth.

For instance, do I support "our current program of Immigration whereby we take in who ever from wherever no matter their origin or persuasion, we clothe, feed, house and support whomever and their family's and then allow the further importation/reunification of family's as well"? 

Well, er, no, because no such policy exists.  Besides which, that has absolutely zero to do with my comments, or with this thread.

Do I take you for an idiot who wouldn't see that my reference to 1933 was about Nazis?

No, I take you for someone who is intelligent enough to understand the example without misconstruing the argument.

Let's be clear: I did not say, nor did I imply that [insert sacred cow here] is the same as Hitler.  I did not even mention any current political figures.  What I was talking about is the fact that populism/demagoguery is used to drive people to do unspeakable things.  I mentioned genocide because it has (sadly) occurred repeatedly throughout human history as a result of movements like Nazism.  Did I say Trump is genocidal?  No.  I did not.

You have a lot more feelings and intuitions about my character and politics than I care to answer.  You may have guessed I don't drape myself in the flag or sport a "F*** off we're full" bumper sticker.. but that doesn't make me any less Aussie than you.  Nationalism isn't a pre-requisite of citizenship, at least for now.

Last edited by Killface (2017-01-21 14:53:20)


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#16 2017-01-21 17:15:24

mmm....shiney!
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Re: What is Populism?

southerncross wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:
HoldMeTender wrote:

It is politics played purely to increase popularity.

+1, the alliteration you've used is particularly persuasive. wink

If this is the case then why is it only those outside of the traditional Two party system that are denoted with such a label ?
And why is it that such support is derived from the voters of the current TP system ?
Maybe a lot of people are just waking up now to how and why they have been controlled, and are seeking a change.

Because the mainstream political parties have failed to introduce policies that reflect the wishes of everyone in the electorate. Over the past 2 -3 decades the mainstream parties have attempted to socially engineer the population based upon a set of principles that is obviously not shared by every member of society. They have used the coercive power of legislation to enhance one set of values over other competing values, often appealing to science, philosophy, ethics etc in order to justify their practice. This is now being rejected by many at a grass roots level, especially those who either have a different philosophy, different scientific theory, different code of ethics etc or are just ignorant of any of that. This has led to the rise of alternative parties that are attempting to wield their own version of political power by seeking the support of the disenfranchised or those with antithetical beliefs.

Now, instead of displaying taciturn resistance to the attempts by those in power to control the lives of individuals, these new populists armed with the power of social media are demanding change from our leaders. And they're demanding the very same thing that most of our current and past politicians have delivered ie the introduction of policies that attempt to socially engineer the population based upon a set of principles that they claim is one that is shared or culturally significant. When in reality all they want is to reject individual differences and impose their own morality on others.

Neither the mainstream parties nor the populists can adequately justify their means, regardless of the sincerity of their ends, it's still just one group using the power of the State to impose its values onto another.

Last edited by mmm....shiney! (2017-01-21 17:16:47)


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#17 2017-01-21 17:22:54

radiobirdman
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Re: What is Populism?

southerncross wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:
HoldMeTender wrote:

It is politics played purely to increase popularity.

+1, the alliteration you've used is particularly persuasive. wink

If this is the case then why is it only those outside of the traditional Two party system that are denoted with such a label ?
And why is it that such support is derived from the voters of the current TP system ?
Maybe a lot of people are just waking up now to how and why they have been controlled, and are seeking a change.

What! we are all slaves, who would have thought citizen =slave
And no mention of the socialists, the stnuc doing all the enslavement lately
rules and regulations, fees and fines, civic compliance, you don't pay the government takes by force

And most of you will vote for more slavery
SUCKERS

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#18 2017-01-21 18:19:56

renovator
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Re: What is Populism?

bordsilver wrote:

I realised that I am getting sick of people using the word "populist" ("populism"). It is frequently trotted out in reference to things like Brexit, Trump or One Nation and is usually meant to be derogatory.

I suspect, however, that most people who use it have no clue what they mean by it (except possibly in reference to the great unwashed trying to usurp someone's authority through peaceful voting). It is a vague term that is applied to a wide range of issues right across the political spectrum.

A couple of weeks ago I went to a talk by one of our ex-ambassadors and he used the term liberally throughout his talk when discussing the state of European politics at the moment (sometimes in conflicting ways). In the question time I asked him what he meant by it precisely. Although he did have an answer (albeit a weak one, but having an answer did surprise me) it didn't really make much sense in the context of his narrative.

I think people need to start calling it out whenever they hear the term. Ask the person - What do you mean by that? Make them state more explicitly what it is that they are railing against. Presumably it is not "populism" that they do not like but some specific consequence of a given policy position.

I realised that im sick of people using words like "usurp " & shiney  "taciturn"  .Who actually uses words like this in everyday conversation ?  tongue:


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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#19 2017-01-21 19:04:03

mmm....shiney!
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Re: What is Populism?

renovator wrote:

I realised that im sick of people using words like "usurp " & shiney  "taciturn"  .Who actually uses words like this in everyday conversation ?  tongue:

Look upon it as part of your education reno.


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#20 2017-01-21 19:19:05

mmm....shiney!
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Re: What is Populism?

With a Trump presidency at hand an inescapable historical irony deserves to be noted. If there was a time in our history—and there was—when progressivism bested populism, this is a moment when populism has returned the favor. To be sure, the populism of today is not exactly the same version of populism that the progressives initially defeated, but it is populism nonetheless.

In the late 19th century an agrarian version of populism swept through the Midwest and the south. Led by Minnesota's Ignatius Donnelly, among others, it was a grassroots movement that threatened to break through as a permanent alternative to the Democrats and Republicans. It also promised to save the country from an impending apocalypse, as Donnelly signaled in his preamble to the 1892 People's party platform, which began "we meet in the midst of a nation brought to the verge of moral, political, and material ruin."

But it all ended very quickly. First the People's party merged with William Jennings Bryan and the Democrats in 1896. Then along came the progressives to steal the populist thunder and much of their agenda. The wave of the future—or for at least the next century or so—was progressivism, whose first face was Theodore Roosevelt, and whose most recent face is Barack Obama.

There would be no populist moment, much less any national populist triumph or dominance.  In truth, while Andy Jackson might object, there has never been anything close to a national populist success story—until now. Of course, it's a somewhat different form of populism that has come to the fore today.  Ignatius Donnelly, meet Donald Trump. Better yet, left wing populist, meet your right wing counterpart. The first paved the way for an incipient progressivism; the second has triumphed over the excesses of progressivism—and in good measure because of those excesses. In any case, these two versions of populism constitute as unlikely a pair of bookends to our long-reigning progressivism as could be imagined.

and from the last paragraph a warning, germane in it's applicability to our prevailing conditions*:

True progress cannot be an open-ended thing. Nor should it be a top down thing. Now that progressivism has hit a brick wall, thanks to a resurgent populism, maybe progressives will come to realize as much. At the very least, they would be well-advised not to do what Theodore Roosevelt once did when he cavalierly dismissed his populist enemies as nothing more than the "lunatic fringe."

http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog … gressivism

* @reno, that means like the same as now. I had to google a lot of words to come up with that crap.  wink

Last edited by mmm....shiney! (2017-01-21 20:10:51)


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#21 2017-01-21 19:33:59

CriticalSilver
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Re: What is Populism?

bordsilver wrote:

I realised that I am getting sick of people using the word "populist" ("populism"). It is frequently trotted out in reference to things like Brexit, Trump or One Nation and is usually meant to be derogatory.

I suspect, however, that most people who use it have no clue what they mean by it (except possibly in reference to the great unwashed trying to usurp someone's authority through peaceful voting). It is a vague term that is applied to a wide range of issues right across the political spectrum.

A couple of weeks ago I went to a talk by one of our ex-ambassadors and he used the term liberally throughout his talk when discussing the state of European politics at the moment (sometimes in conflicting ways). In the question time I asked him what he meant by it precisely. Although he did have an answer (albeit a weak one, but having an answer did surprise me) it didn't really make much sense in the context of his narrative.

I think people need to start calling it out whenever they hear the term. Ask the person - What do you mean by that? Make them state more explicitly what it is that they are railing against. Presumably it is not "populism" that they do not like but some specific consequence of a given policy position.

I agree and am impressed that you would have called out the ambassador on his use of the term.

It seems to me that it is being demonised by affiliation with Hitler and the WWII German Nazi movement. Whereas, if contrasted against the term "popular vote" one can see that "populism" is closely connected to democracy.

Rule by the mob is OK when the mob is controlled and popular sentiments are consistent with globalist political agendas, apparently, but not if it is in support of less government and less government intervention.

And to add, if the IMF's Christine Legarde uses the term one can be assured it is an elitist perjorative to condemn anti-globalist sentiment.

Last edited by CriticalSilver (2017-01-21 19:37:58)

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#22 2017-01-21 19:49:59

renovator
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Re: What is Populism?

mmm....shiney! wrote:
renovator wrote:

I realised that im sick of people using words like "usurp " & shiney  "taciturn"  .Who actually uses words like this in everyday conversation ?  tongue:

Look upon it as part of your education reno.

nope i look upon it as useless drivel . Im only interested in learning new ways to make money not useless words that i will never use . Thanks anway its nice to see you want to expand my vocabulary ..it is limited to basic english that everyone can understand  the key word is "everyone" .

I liken it to watching a politician waffle on with these type of words .theres nothing that makes my eyes roll back in my head quicker than some pompous ass intellectual using words that very few inderstand..If your talking to the general population i feel you need to be able to communicate clearly with them .jmo of course.


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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#23 2017-01-21 19:51:04

renovator
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Re: What is Populism?

mmm....shiney! wrote:

With a Trump presidency at hand an inescapable historical irony deserves to be noted. If there was a time in our history—and there was—when progressivism bested populism, this is a moment when populism has returned the favor. To be sure, the populism of today is not exactly the same version of populism that the progressives initially defeated, but it is populism nonetheless.

In the late 19th century an agrarian version of populism swept through the Midwest and the south. Led by Minnesota's Ignatius Donnelly, among others, it was a grassroots movement that threatened to break through as a permanent alternative to the Democrats and Republicans. It also promised to save the country from an impending apocalypse, as Donnelly signaled in his preamble to the 1892 People's party platform, which began "we meet in the midst of a nation brought to the verge of moral, political, and material ruin."

But it all ended very quickly. First the People's party merged with William Jennings Bryan and the Democrats in 1896. Then along came the progressives to steal the populist thunder and much of their agenda. The wave of the future—or for at least the next century or so—was progressivism, whose first face was Theodore Roosevelt, and whose most recent face is Barack Obama.

There would be no populist moment, much less any national populist triumph or dominance.  In truth, while Andy Jackson might object, there has never been anything close to a national populist success story—until now. Of course, it's a somewhat different form of populism that has come to the fore today.  Ignatius Donnelly, meet Donald Trump. Better yet, left wing populist, meet your right wing counterpart. The first paved the way for an incipient progressivism; the second has triumphed over the excesses of progressivism—and in good measure because of those excesses. In any case, these two versions of populism constitute as unlikely a pair of bookends to our long-reigning progressivism as could be imagined.

and from the last paragraph a warning, germane in it's applicability to our prevailing conditions*:

True progress cannot be an open-ended thing. Nor should it be a top down thing. Now that progressivism has hit a brick wall, thanks to a resurgent populism, maybe progressives will come to realize as much. At the very least, they would be well-advised not to do what Theodore Roosevelt once did when he cavalierly dismissed his populist enemies as nothing more than the "lunatic fringe."

* @reno, that means like the same as now. I had to google a lot of words to come up with that crap.  wink

I knew you were not that smart  lol


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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#24 2017-01-21 20:13:41

mmm....shiney!
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Re: What is Populism?

renovator wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:
renovator wrote:

I realised that im sick of people using words like "usurp " & shiney  "taciturn"  .Who actually uses words like this in everyday conversation ?  tongue:

Look upon it as part of your education reno.

nope i look upon it as useless drivel . Im only interested in learning new ways to make money not useless words that i will never use . Thanks anway its nice to see you want to expand my vocabulary ..it is limited to basic english that everyone can understand  the key word is "everyone" .

I liken it to watching a politician waffle on with these type of words .theres nothing that makes my eyes roll back in my head quicker than some pompous ass intellectual using words that very few inderstand..If your talking to the general population i feel you need to be able to communicate clearly with them .jmo of course.

Each to their own, I take pleasure in using the English language, sometimes particular words not commonly used convey concepts better than commonly used ones, no matter how archaic they may appear to you. cool


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#25 2017-01-21 21:51:57

renovator
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Re: What is Populism?

mmm....shiney! wrote:
renovator wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:

Look upon it as part of your education reno.

nope i look upon it as useless drivel . Im only interested in learning new ways to make money not useless words that i will never use . Thanks anway its nice to see you want to expand my vocabulary ..it is limited to basic english that everyone can understand  the key word is "everyone" .

I liken it to watching a politician waffle on with these type of words .theres nothing that makes my eyes roll back in my head quicker than some pompous ass intellectual using words that very few inderstand..If your talking to the general population i feel you need to be able to communicate clearly with them .jmo of course.

Each to their own, I take pleasure in using the English language, sometimes particular words not commonly used convey concepts better than commonly used ones, no matter how archaic they may appear to you. cool

I have no idea how a word that most dont understand can convey something better ?. you've lost me on this one .


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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