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#26 2016-12-30 15:47:03

morezone
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2014-07-05
Posts: 10
Trades :   

Re: What's up with medal mintages?

I would like to find the tiger from this series:
https://world.taobao.com/item/543678644 … 3e72b28810

Is that the 80mm Shanghai Series?  Didn't that series only start in 2012?


(朱龙)上海造币厂 朱熙华 高浮雕生肖系列首枚—龙年大铜章 - Google translates to: Shanghai Mint Zhu Xihua high relief's first Lunar New Year Series - Year of the Dragon large bronze (but seller or translation could be wrong)

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#27 2016-12-30 16:34:21

Gatito Bandito
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From: US
Registered: 2014-11-07
Posts: 2,378
Trades :   12 

Re: What's up with medal mintages?

Check the 1st link in Stark's post right before yours.

Apparently there's a 2011 Rabbit in this series. Not sure if that's the first one, or if there's a Tiger (or earlier!) out there.


Probably lunar overload with this stuff at this point, but this is a pretty nice lunar series.

My only issue with these is the tendency for Shanghai to go a little too crazy on the antiquing oxidizer on these big brass. Other than that, I'd probably buy 'em all (if only I had the funds). So, I'll probably be selective. Gotta admit, the Rooster is pretty nice.

So far(?) I've only got the Sheep, which I think is pretty awesome...


14291_2015_sheep_1.jpg

14291_2015_sheep_2.jpg

14291_2015_sheep_3.jpg

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#28 2016-12-31 01:34:06

andrewlee10
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From: Singapore
Registered: 2014-01-06
Posts: 1,928
Trades :   23 
Website

Re: What's up with medal mintages?

morezone wrote:

I would like to find the tiger from this series:
https://world.taobao.com/item/543678644 … 3e72b28810

Is that the 80mm Shanghai Series?  Didn't that series only start in 2012?


(朱龙)上海造币厂 朱熙华 高浮雕生肖系列首枚—龙年大铜章 - Google translates to: Shanghai Mint Zhu Xihua high relief's first Lunar New Year Series - Year of the Dragon large bronze (but seller or translation could be wrong)

Can be done but the pricing is an issue.

There has silver version which price is always at high end side


www.chinesemedals.com  Here is our website. We do collect, but we also sell what we collect, to folks like you, all over the world.

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#29 2016-12-31 04:37:13

morezone
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2014-07-05
Posts: 10
Trades :   

Re: What's up with medal mintages?

Gatito Bandito wrote:

Check the 1st link in Stark's post right before yours.

Apparently there's a 2011 Rabbit in this series. Not sure if that's the first one, or if there's a Tiger (or earlier!) out there.

Ooops.  Helps if I don't accidental delete the end quote tag in my last post.

Anyway...I did see the Rabbit from the first link.  Is that from the same series though because it's only high relief on one side.  Posssibly due to a change of designer/style?

@andrewlee10 Maybe you could shed some light on this.  When did the series start?  If it predates the Dragon, are the two styles still considered the same series or would it be the end of one and the start of another.

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#30 2016-12-31 05:06:04

Stark
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From: Europe
Registered: 2013-05-09
Posts: 1,791
Trades :   13 

Re: What's up with medal mintages?

Gatito Bandito wrote:

Check the 1st link in Stark's post right before yours.

Apparently there's a 2011 Rabbit in this series. Not sure if that's the first one, or if there's a Tiger (or earlier!) out there.


Probably lunar overload with this stuff at this point, but this is a pretty nice lunar series.

My only issue with these is the tendency for Shanghai to go a little too crazy on the antiquing oxidizer on these big brass. Other than that, I'd probably buy 'em all (if only I had the funds). So, I'll probably be selective. Gotta admit, the Rooster is pretty nice.

So far(?) I've only got the Sheep, which I think is pretty awesome...


http://forums.silverstackers.com/upload … heep_1.jpg

http://forums.silverstackers.com/upload … heep_2.jpg

http://forums.silverstackers.com/upload … heep_3.jpg

I was aware about the others before, but I never got (I asked also in the past) any clear reply about the tiger. It seems it started with wabbit. smile

I know I probably said this too often, but I think this is one of the best lunar series out there. It's one of the few, if not the only one, that I would have each of the medal. I agree with you about overload with lunars.

andrewlee10 wrote:
morezone wrote:

I would like to find the tiger from this series:
https://world.taobao.com/item/543678644 … 3e72b28810

Is that the 80mm Shanghai Series?  Didn't that series only start in 2012?


(朱龙)上海造币厂 朱熙华 高浮雕生肖系列首枚—龙年大铜章 - Google translates to: Shanghai Mint Zhu Xihua high relief's first Lunar New Year Series - Year of the Dragon large bronze (but seller or translation could be wrong)

Can be done but the pricing is an issue.

There has silver version which price is always at high end side

Wow, so each of these medals is also available in silver? Damn, rabbit should look super fine. Hopefully also tiger when it's released.

Sorry guys for hijacking the thread. smile


"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty".

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#31 2016-12-31 05:08:44

Stark
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From: Europe
Registered: 2013-05-09
Posts: 1,791
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Re: What's up with medal mintages?

If I return back to the topic... based on my experience there are not many medals that were "fully" minted, or I'm just collecting/interested in medals that are not so popular (or not minted). smile
What do you think?

I guess when producers of Chinese medals will invest more into "marketing" demand will be even higher. Quite many stuff I found out accidentally, but I guess sponsors are at least putting some "ads" on some Chinese forums or something?


"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty".

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#32 2016-12-31 09:23:03

mmissinglink
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From: Everywhere...simultaneously
Registered: 2012-09-30
Posts: 5,941
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Re: What's up with medal mintages?

If it started with the rabbit, then the 2 best years are still to come; Rat and Tiger.



Stark, as for your question regarding popular medals, I think the main benefit of buying a medal that is not popular (or not popular yet) is that the price is usually lower simply because of supply-demand dynamics.





For me, I actually don't care at all that a medal or collector coin is popular.....by far and away the most important criteria for me is aesthetic appeal. This is not necessarily the same approach I use when buying bullion silver coins because I don't buy them generally for the same reason I do medals. The medal design must be aesthetically appealing to me personally before I even consider buying it. I will not buy a medal that is not appealing to me.  At the same time and for a different reason, I also don't buy crappy looking medals because I don't want to support or encourage poor craftsmanship and therefore I'm not going to  reward a mint with my hard earned money if they are going to pump out a crappy product no matter how "popular" it is among the masses....I just won't do it.


I'm sure I'm not the only person who collects medals who feels the same way about the main criteria being aesthetic appeal.




.

Last edited by mmissinglink (2016-12-31 09:58:14)


In some ways, we are not that different

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#33 2016-12-31 09:55:27

andrewlee10
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Re: What's up with medal mintages?

Hi Guy.............. I will ask and check those information for all of you.


www.chinesemedals.com  Here is our website. We do collect, but we also sell what we collect, to folks like you, all over the world.

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#34 2016-12-31 10:02:00

andrewlee10
Member
From: Singapore
Registered: 2014-01-06
Posts: 1,928
Trades :   23 
Website

Re: What's up with medal mintages?

Stark wrote:

If I return back to the topic... based on my experience there are not many medals that were "fully" minted, or I'm just collecting/interested in medals that are not so popular (or not minted). smile
What do you think?

I guess when producers of Chinese medals will invest more into "marketing" demand will be even higher. Quite many stuff I found out accidentally, but I guess sponsors are at least putting some "ads" on some Chinese forums or something?

The medal collectors is smaller than coin collectors base.

china mint Advertisement and marketing is always lesser than western mints.

We are few series sponsor which we would not like to sell to big dealers even they approach us. There is always a reason which is trade secret. I will not disclose it.

I collect information informally and try to disclose information too.

Many forum owners and other media channels twister, facebook, utube and so on who always claim they not related to XX dealers and no financially gain and benefits on it. Filter the information and think twice.


www.chinesemedals.com  Here is our website. We do collect, but we also sell what we collect, to folks like you, all over the world.

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#35 2016-12-31 12:04:36

Stark
Silver Stacker
From: Europe
Registered: 2013-05-09
Posts: 1,791
Trades :   13 

Re: What's up with medal mintages?

mmissinglink wrote:

If it started with the rabbit, then the 2 best years are still to come; Rat and Tiger.



Stark, as for your question regarding popular medals, I think the main benefit of buying a medal that is not popular (or not popular yet) is that the price is usually lower simply because of supply-demand dynamics.





For me, I actually don't care at all that a medal or collector coin is popular.....by far and away the most important criteria for me is aesthetic appeal. This is not necessarily the same approach I use when buying bullion silver coins because I don't buy them generally for the same reason I do medals. The medal design must be aesthetically appealing to me personally before I even consider buying it. I will not buy a medal that is not appealing to me.  At the same time and for a different reason, I also don't buy crappy looking medals because I don't want to support or encourage poor craftsmanship and therefore I'm not going to  reward a mint with my hard earned money if they are going to pump out a crappy product no matter how "popular" it is among the masses....I just won't do it.


I'm sure I'm not the only person who collects medals who feels the same way about the main criteria being aesthetic appeal.




.

Rat (mouse) is very cool as well. I think I would prefer rabbits though, as my grandparents had them when I was a kid (long long time ago smile ).

I meant more that I found it "fascinating" that most of the medals I encountered are not fully minted. A lot of them never reached planned mintage. Andy answered this very well I think (below). Coin collector market is bigger than market for medals. I don't recall a coin that is not fully minted.

Medal might become "hot" few years later, so it can happen that mint will produce additional pieces, if they still have all the dies and stuff.

Most if not all of the stuff I buy I buy because of the same reasons as you. If I don't like it, I won't buy it. It's true that taste can change a little bit. Some coins I bought in the past I don't like now so much any more.

andrewlee10 wrote:
Stark wrote:

If I return back to the topic... based on my experience there are not many medals that were "fully" minted, or I'm just collecting/interested in medals that are not so popular (or not minted). smile
What do you think?

I guess when producers of Chinese medals will invest more into "marketing" demand will be even higher. Quite many stuff I found out accidentally, but I guess sponsors are at least putting some "ads" on some Chinese forums or something?

The medal collectors is smaller than coin collectors base.

china mint Advertisement and marketing is always lesser than western mints.

We are few series sponsor which we would not like to sell to big dealers even they approach us. There is always a reason which is trade secret. I will not disclose it.

I collect information informally and try to disclose information too.

Many forum owners and other media channels twister, facebook, utube and so on who always claim they not related to XX dealers and no financially gain and benefits on it. Filter the information and think twice.

I guess nobody wants to take risk and mint just some percentage of the planned mintage number. If medals are selling well they mint additional.

Considering World Heritage "popularity" I expected there would be also silver version, but it's not.


"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty".

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#36 2016-12-31 12:35:14

mmissinglink
Member
From: Everywhere...simultaneously
Registered: 2012-09-30
Posts: 5,941
Trades :   16 

Re: What's up with medal mintages?

Stark wrote:
mmissinglink wrote:

If it started with the rabbit, then the 2 best years are still to come; Rat and Tiger.



Stark, as for your question regarding popular medals, I think the main benefit of buying a medal that is not popular (or not popular yet) is that the price is usually lower simply because of supply-demand dynamics.





For me, I actually don't care at all that a medal or collector coin is popular.....by far and away the most important criteria for me is aesthetic appeal. This is not necessarily the same approach I use when buying bullion silver coins because I don't buy them generally for the same reason I do medals. The medal design must be aesthetically appealing to me personally before I even consider buying it. I will not buy a medal that is not appealing to me.  At the same time and for a different reason, I also don't buy crappy looking medals because I don't want to support or encourage poor craftsmanship and therefore I'm not going to  reward a mint with my hard earned money if they are going to pump out a crappy product no matter how "popular" it is among the masses....I just won't do it.


I'm sure I'm not the only person who collects medals who feels the same way about the main criteria being aesthetic appeal.




.

Rat (mouse) is very cool as well. I think I would prefer rabbits though, as my grandparents had them when I was a kid (long long time ago smile ).

I meant more that I found it "fascinating" that most of the medals I encountered are not fully minted. A lot of them never reached planned mintage. Andy answered this very well I think (below). Coin collector market is bigger than market for medals. I don't recall a coin that is not fully minted.

Medal might become "hot" few years later, so it can happen that mint will produce additional pieces, if they still have all the dies and stuff.

Most if not all of the stuff I buy I buy because of the same reasons as you. If I don't like it, I won't buy it. It's true that taste can change a little bit. Some coins I bought in the past I don't like now so much any more.

andrewlee10 wrote:
Stark wrote:

If I return back to the topic... based on my experience there are not many medals that were "fully" minted, or I'm just collecting/interested in medals that are not so popular (or not minted). smile
What do you think?

I guess when producers of Chinese medals will invest more into "marketing" demand will be even higher. Quite many stuff I found out accidentally, but I guess sponsors are at least putting some "ads" on some Chinese forums or something?

The medal collectors is smaller than coin collectors base.

china mint Advertisement and marketing is always lesser than western mints.

We are few series sponsor which we would not like to sell to big dealers even they approach us. There is always a reason which is trade secret. I will not disclose it.

I collect information informally and try to disclose information too.

Many forum owners and other media channels twister, facebook, utube and so on who always claim they not related to XX dealers and no financially gain and benefits on it. Filter the information and think twice.

I guess nobody wants to take risk and mint just some percentage of the planned mintage number. If medals are selling well they mint additional.

Considering World Heritage "popularity" I expected there would be also silver version, but it's not.




Many coins are never fully minted. That's why there are "maximum" or "proposed" (or "mintage limit" in the case of the US Mint) mintage vs "actual" or "declared" mintage.....these are 2 very different things and should not be confused.  Many coins from the U.S. and Australia never reach their max or proposed mintage when the pre-determined cut-off date for sales is reached and then the dies are determined to be invalid or are defaced or destroyed.

Case in point:  Australia 2008 Lunar Series 2 Mouse Proof Kilo silver coin  Max mintage: 500   Declared (final) Mintage:  171

This means that there will never be more than 171 of those coins ever made. My guess is that the dies were destroyed.




.

Last edited by mmissinglink (2016-12-31 12:37:34)


In some ways, we are not that different

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#37 2016-12-31 12:43:25

Stark
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From: Europe
Registered: 2013-05-09
Posts: 1,791
Trades :   13 

Re: What's up with medal mintages?

Ah yes, damn, also many if not all Libertads. Well kilo and gold at least, 5oz and 2oz as well. You see, I'm now so focused on Chinese stuff I completely forgot about "the other world". yikes smile


"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty".

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#38 2016-12-31 12:48:40

mmissinglink
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Posts: 5,941
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Re: What's up with medal mintages?

That this is true about many coins doesn't take away anything from the beauty and potential blossoming value of many Chinese medals.




.


In some ways, we are not that different

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#39 2017-01-04 19:53:40

Gatito Bandito
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From: US
Registered: 2014-11-07
Posts: 2,378
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Re: What's up with medal mintages?

Sweet pick-ups, bro!

Stackin' dat brass like a boss!!

(Isn't that how they roll over there in YouTube land? lol )



In all seriousness, nice vid showcasing these yummy medals, mate.

Congrats on the collection so far. Must be impressive in-hand...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ09t_BX9-c

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#40 2017-01-04 21:03:49

andrewlee10
Member
From: Singapore
Registered: 2014-01-06
Posts: 1,928
Trades :   23 
Website

Re: What's up with medal mintages?

Stark wrote:
mmissinglink wrote:

If it started with the rabbit, then the 2 best years are still to come; Rat and Tiger.



Stark, as for your question regarding popular medals, I think the main benefit of buying a medal that is not popular (or not popular yet) is that the price is usually lower simply because of supply-demand dynamics.





For me, I actually don't care at all that a medal or collector coin is popular.....by far and away the most important criteria for me is aesthetic appeal. This is not necessarily the same approach I use when buying bullion silver coins because I don't buy them generally for the same reason I do medals. The medal design must be aesthetically appealing to me personally before I even consider buying it. I will not buy a medal that is not appealing to me.  At the same time and for a different reason, I also don't buy crappy looking medals because I don't want to support or encourage poor craftsmanship and therefore I'm not going to  reward a mint with my hard earned money if they are going to pump out a crappy product no matter how "popular" it is among the masses....I just won't do it.


I'm sure I'm not the only person who collects medals who feels the same way about the main criteria being aesthetic appeal.




.

Rat (mouse) is very cool as well. I think I would prefer rabbits though, as my grandparents had them when I was a kid (long long time ago smile ).

I meant more that I found it "fascinating" that most of the medals I encountered are not fully minted. A lot of them never reached planned mintage. Andy answered this very well I think (below). Coin collector market is bigger than market for medals. I don't recall a coin that is not fully minted.

Medal might become "hot" few years later, so it can happen that mint will produce additional pieces, if they still have all the dies and stuff.

Most if not all of the stuff I buy I buy because of the same reasons as you. If I don't like it, I won't buy it. It's true that taste can change a little bit. Some coins I bought in the past I don't like now so much any more.

andrewlee10 wrote:
Stark wrote:

If I return back to the topic... based on my experience there are not many medals that were "fully" minted, or I'm just collecting/interested in medals that are not so popular (or not minted). smile
What do you think?

I guess when producers of Chinese medals will invest more into "marketing" demand will be even higher. Quite many stuff I found out accidentally, but I guess sponsors are at least putting some "ads" on some Chinese forums or something?

The medal collectors is smaller than coin collectors base.

china mint Advertisement and marketing is always lesser than western mints.

We are few series sponsor which we would not like to sell to big dealers even they approach us. There is always a reason which is trade secret. I will not disclose it.

I collect information informally and try to disclose information too.

Many forum owners and other media channels twister, facebook, utube and so on who always claim they not related to XX dealers and no financially gain and benefits on it. Filter the information and think twice.

I guess nobody wants to take risk and mint just some percentage of the planned mintage number. If medals are selling well they mint additional.

Considering World Heritage "popularity" I expected there would be also silver version, but it's not.


That is always a minimum actual mintage that a sponsor must Mint. Generally Shenyang and Nanjing mint will Cold Storage the die after one to two years after minting. It is not likely for them to mint the valence after the 3rd year of quantity of minting is very small except you pay double or triple for it. This is different case of private mint who they willing to mint even after a Long time if it is profitable. I suspect silver Xi Shi holding a pearl is typical example. Out of sudden around 30 pcs silver exist in market. Personally I bought around 10 pcs and left 5 now.

This is one of the differences between official and private mint.


www.chinesemedals.com  Here is our website. We do collect, but we also sell what we collect, to folks like you, all over the world.

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#41 2017-01-04 23:58:45

mmissinglink
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From: Everywhere...simultaneously
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Posts: 5,941
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Re: What's up with medal mintages?

^  I don't necessarily see that as a negative especially if it's me that wants to buy one or more of the second batch! I wish the official mints would do that with a couple of silver medals I'd like to get.



.


.


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#42 2017-01-05 00:46:24

andrewlee10
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From: Singapore
Registered: 2014-01-06
Posts: 1,928
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Re: What's up with medal mintages?

mmissinglink wrote:

^  I don't necessarily see that as a negative especially if it's me that wants to buy one or more of the second batch! I wish the official mints would do that with a couple of silver medals I'd like to get.

.


I agree with you if collectors always try to take coa mintage as true and filter the information from forum and media.

Many newbies and collectors fall into mintage trap rather than buying item they like. They receive positive and "dump and bump" information from some forums and media (i.e Facebook, twiter, utube, redit and so on) without doing their homework properly.

China coin and medals need to do a lot research and homework if you view it as investment. Many pure flippers after reading and viewing the forum and media start buying MCCM without doing much research. They intent to flip for profit in short term and never consider their financial ability. I did came across those customers over the years. However, there are more those customers recently. I share this with few regular customers and friends. I suppose to be happy rather than complaint and sad. However, as I wear seller and collector hat. As collector, it is sad to see those growth of immature collectors and pure flippers.

I hope new collectors with appreciation of the art instead of purely for flipping. Numics is not very liquid investment as compare to cash and gold.


www.chinesemedals.com  Here is our website. We do collect, but we also sell what we collect, to folks like you, all over the world.

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#43 2017-01-05 09:27:17

perfulator
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Re: What's up with medal mintages?

Good advices, but I remember it was not that easy to be a newbie once, because of all the hyping etc. I suspect some of the dump and bump as seen in some forum actually are targeted against newbies as they don't know how to filter these things. Hopefully they have the means to learn the hard way, but I guess some just loose interest because of wrong focus and broken expectations.  Which is a shame...

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#44 2017-01-05 14:21:54

mmissinglink
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Re: What's up with medal mintages?

Pump and dump is not only unethical but it has a deleterious effect overall on the market because it breaks trust and it shows lack of integrity of those players who do it and those players who remain silent while others do it.




.


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#45 2017-01-07 07:10:54

andrewlee10
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From: Singapore
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Re: What's up with medal mintages?

mmissinglink wrote:

Pump and dump is not only unethical but it has a deleterious effect overall on the market because it breaks trust and it shows lack of integrity of those players who do it and those players who remain silent while others do it.




.

Someone view differently. Nothings to loss for them BUT short term gain is crucial for them. Money is always evil.


www.chinesemedals.com  Here is our website. We do collect, but we also sell what we collect, to folks like you, all over the world.

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#46 2017-01-07 07:16:35

andrewlee10
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Re: What's up with medal mintages?

12542_img_7779.jpg

shanghai mint Lunar series : it from rabbit if not wrong.

Last edited by andrewlee10 (2017-01-07 07:17:00)


www.chinesemedals.com  Here is our website. We do collect, but we also sell what we collect, to folks like you, all over the world.

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#47 2017-01-07 08:04:45

Stark
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From: Europe
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Posts: 1,791
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Re: What's up with medal mintages?

Very cool set, thanks for sharing!;)

Do you maybe have picture of the other side as well?:)


"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty".

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#48 2017-01-07 14:15:42

mmissinglink
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Posts: 5,941
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Re: What's up with medal mintages?

"Money is always evil."


I 100% disagree.

Money is never evil because money is inanimate.

That someone can use money for their purpose of doing evil doesn't make money evil....it simply means that the behavior of that individual is evil.


Money can be used for a tremendous amount of good doing. Just think of all the good that is being done by people who help, rescue, or take in injured, unwanted, needy, or feral animals as just one of many examples of money being purposed for good.



.


In some ways, we are not that different

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#49 2017-01-07 22:16:52

andrewlee10
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Re: What's up with medal mintages?

mmissinglink wrote:

"Money is always evil."


I 100% disagree.

Money is never evil because money is inanimate.

That someone can use money for their purpose of doing evil doesn't make money evil....it simply means that the behavior of that individual is evil.


Money can be used for a tremendous amount of good doing. Just think of all the good that is being done by people who help, rescue, or take in injured, unwanted, needy, or feral animals as just one of many examples of money being purposed for good.



.

Totally agree with you. It is personal behaviour


www.chinesemedals.com  Here is our website. We do collect, but we also sell what we collect, to folks like you, all over the world.

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#50 2017-01-08 08:49:15

andrewlee10
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From: Singapore
Registered: 2014-01-06
Posts: 1,928
Trades :   23 
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Re: What's up with medal mintages?

perfulator wrote:

Good advices, but I remember it was not that easy to be a newbie once, because of all the hyping etc. I suspect some of the dump and bump as seen in some forum actually are targeted against newbies as they don't know how to filter these things. Hopefully they have the means to learn the hard way, but I guess some just loose interest because of wrong focus and broken expectations.  Which is a shame...

12542_img_7844.jpg

I receive this screen shot from a friend. Comments please.

MINT ALWAYS MAKE MISTAKE LOL. smile

Last edited by andrewlee10 (2017-01-08 08:50:59)


www.chinesemedals.com  Here is our website. We do collect, but we also sell what we collect, to folks like you, all over the world.

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