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#1 2016-11-20 05:33:29

willrocks
Silver Stacker
From: Yesterday
Registered: 2012-05-10
Posts: 7,628
Trades :   29 

Universal basic income

More talk of a basic income. Sounds like communism to me.

The case for a universal basic income, no questions asked
What if the right to an income was as basic as the right to vote?

In Australia you don't get money unless you work, or can prove you've been trying to find work or are disabled or jump through some other sort of hoop. At 65 you get the pension.

...

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-case- … ssj23.html


"You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

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#2 2016-11-20 05:41:00

sfstacker
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Registered: 2016-10-25
Posts: 384
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Re: Universal basic income

Only the strong have the right to live. Trample the weak and hurdle the dead!

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#3 2016-11-20 05:48:47

mmm....shiney!
Silver Stacker
From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 15,915
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Re: Universal basic income

It's about creating a new generation that are dependent on government largesse.

Frigging absurd idea - pay someone to do nothing or produce something no one wants. hmm


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#4 2016-11-20 20:18:06

FullMetalFever
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From: Melbourne
Registered: 2012-08-06
Posts: 337
Trades :   16 

Re: Universal basic income

SMHTool wrote:

Yet if we are honest, those of us with good jobs should probably admit that we have them largely through luck and the accident of where we were born. Much of our income isn't the result of our own efforts, it's a dividend from our society – a dividend we deny those without those jobs.

Getting good grades in High School, completing a 4 year Uni degree and then building a career for 15 years including spending large sums on training courses, etc. and this tool wants people like me to admit that I've got my "good" job due to luck and where I was born (which wasn't in Oz btw, let alone the affluent suburbs)???

GAGF you bloody dimwit. Everyone reaps what they sow and I'd be loathe to share (more of) my harvest with those who neglect to sow at all.

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#5 2016-11-20 20:30:45

radiobirdman
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Registered: 2011-04-25
Posts: 2,300
Trades :   59 

Re: Universal basic income

Great idea get the robots to do all the work
we can all piss off to the beach and have a good time or spend all day on f#$*book
everybody can have a rainbow unicorn in the backyard.\\

On a side note wtf is GAGF

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#6 2016-11-20 20:33:38

Ouch
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From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: 2010-11-16
Posts: 1,098
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Re: Universal basic income

As more jobs are taken over by automation or moved overseas and wages driven down to compete with third world countries, businesses will find their local customer base get smaller and smaller which is why a Universal Basic Income in western economies is inevitable. A worker is after all someone else's customer and sometimes even their own.

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#7 2016-11-20 20:34:41

radiobirdman
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Registered: 2011-04-25
Posts: 2,300
Trades :   59 

Re: Universal basic income

mmm....shiney! wrote:

It's about creating a new generation that are dependent on government largesse.

Frigging absurd idea - pay someone to do nothing or produce something no one wants. hmm


But what if your young and don't have any of your own money

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#8 2016-11-20 20:52:16

willrocks
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From: Yesterday
Registered: 2012-05-10
Posts: 7,628
Trades :   29 

Re: Universal basic income

radiobirdman wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:

It's about creating a new generation that are dependent on government largesse.

Frigging absurd idea - pay someone to do nothing or produce something no one wants. hmm


But what if your young and don't have any of your own money

Get the gov to steal some for you! That's what a universal income is.


"You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

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#9 2016-11-20 21:04:53

FullMetalFever
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From: Melbourne
Registered: 2012-08-06
Posts: 337
Trades :   16 

Re: Universal basic income

radiobirdman wrote:

On a side note wtf is GAGF

Go And Get Foobarred

Having a look through the comments on that article ....... by god, there are a lot of unemployed arts students around .....

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#10 2016-11-20 21:20:49

Aureus
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From: Milky Way Galaxy
Registered: 2011-07-07
Posts: 3,030
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Re: Universal basic income

FullMetalFever wrote:
radiobirdman wrote:

On a side note wtf is GAGF

Go And Get Foobarred

Having a look through the comments on that article ....... by god, there are a lot of unemployed arts students around .....

flooded market, every year there are an incredible amount of year 12 students that think they're unique. I remember when I was at school we had 4 full visual communications classes and 1 physics class with just 5 students in it. Kids take the easy route, then they pay for it.
I know it would punish some legitimately talented people but the arts need to count for less when electing classes in VCE, math and sciences higher.


An investment in knowledge pays the best interest.

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#11 2016-11-20 21:31:44

SteveS
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From: Brisbane
Registered: 2016-08-06
Posts: 955
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Re: Universal basic income

I think, if you divide world GDP by population, we all get USD10k. I doubt the architects of this stuff intend that they will have to get by on that themselves, just the plebs.


I intend to live forever. So far, so good.

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#12 2016-11-20 21:33:09

wrcmad
Silver Stacker
From: Northern NSW
Registered: 2012-01-02
Posts: 6,100
Trades :   118 

Re: Universal basic income

FullMetalFever wrote:
SMHTool wrote:

Yet if we are honest, those of us with good jobs should probably admit that we have them largely through luck and the accident of where we were born. Much of our income isn't the result of our own efforts, it's a dividend from our society – a dividend we deny those without those jobs.

Getting good grades in High School, completing a 4 year Uni degree and then building a career for 15 years including spending large sums on training courses, etc. and this tool wants people like me to admit that I've got my "good" job due to luck and where I was born (which wasn't in Oz btw, let alone the affluent suburbs)???

GAGF you bloody dimwit. Everyone reaps what they sow and I'd be loathe to share (more of) my harvest with those who neglect to sow at all.

+ 100.
Especially on the GAGF, and dimwit.
Only those who couldn't be bothered, yet still feel entitled, would call it "luck".


Anything is possible, but not everything is probable.  wink

Manipulation..... If you want to continually subscribe to this idea then get out of precious metals. Only a fool would play a game that is completely rigged. As you still are in the game, I would say that you are not completely convinced of the manipulation ...

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#13 2016-11-20 21:55:50

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Universal basic income

If anything it would be an interesting experiment!

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#14 2016-11-20 21:56:52

radiobirdman
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Registered: 2011-04-25
Posts: 2,300
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Re: Universal basic income

Its all about equality, its only fair if we all receive the same amount each week say $1000
there would be no shame in being an underachiever everybody would be equal
every type of human behaviour could be considered normal that's true equality
Kiwi's will never have to feel embarrassed when they put on the gumboots and head up to the cliff again

Vote green or red or blue it makes no difference Equality will win in the end

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#15 2016-11-20 22:05:26

BuggedOut
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From: New South Wales
Registered: 2015-07-21
Posts: 1,772
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Re: Universal basic income

It astounds me that ideas like this get any oxygen at all.

I don't need a universal basic income.  Just give me a fkn tax break and that'll do thanks.  Why tax workers and then give money straight back.  It's state intervention just for the sake of it.

The answer to manufacturing automation is to make new job sectors for people to go into.  Train, educate and evolve.  We don't need more button pushers.  We need designers, inventors, strategists, professional services...etc

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#16 2016-11-20 22:10:31

mmm....shiney!
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From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 15,915
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Re: Universal basic income

Ouch wrote:

As more jobs are taken over by automation or moved overseas and wages driven down to compete with third world countries, businesses will find their local customer base get smaller and smaller which is why a Universal Basic Income in western economies is inevitable. A worker is after all someone else's customer and sometimes even their own.

As automation replaces mindless, repetitive, mundane tasks, human labour can be re-allocated to more productive uses. Robots will become smaller, more "dexterous" and designed to work alongside human workers, this will be the next "industrial" revolution.


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#17 2016-11-20 22:33:46

Skyrocket
Silver Stacker
From: Melbourne
Registered: 2014-07-20
Posts: 4,851
Trades :   36 

Re: Universal basic income

SteveS wrote:

I think, if you divide world GDP by population, we all get USD10k.


All the freeloader scum refugees will be happy with that.

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#18 2016-11-20 22:34:25

JulieW
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From: Australia
Registered: 2010-10-14
Posts: 11,097

Re: Universal basic income

Universal basic income or welcome to Barter Town.

It's an attempt to deal with all those human robots who're being replaced by actual robots. The ones who'll be fourth generation unemployed without a work future.

Go for a walk at night in Glasgow, or Dandenong etc. or some places in the daytime and see what you think about a universal income.

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#19 2016-11-20 22:43:57

Court Jester
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From: Gold Coast QLD
Registered: 2012-07-30
Posts: 2,888
Trades :   41 

Re: Universal basic income

gimme gimme gimme I want my free money

I suspect The End would be a fan of this idea.

Last edited by Court Jester (2016-11-20 22:44:34)


<--------------------------------------------------------- SIDEWAYS --------------------------------------------------------->
quote=sammysilver 25/10/13  ----- PMs will drive silver to over $30 by Christmas with the GSR dropping to sub 50. I've overextended myself at sub $24 but will keep buying up to $30 then sell half my stack at Easter at $36 and buy up on the next dip if there is one.
Running Telly of incorrect to correct Predictions by SammySilver -- 7:1 as of 10/08/16

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#20 2016-11-20 22:49:49

Ouch
Member
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: 2010-11-16
Posts: 1,098
Trades :   29 

Re: Universal basic income

mmm....shiney! wrote:
Ouch wrote:

As more jobs are taken over by automation or moved overseas and wages driven down to compete with third world countries, businesses will find their local customer base get smaller and smaller which is why a Universal Basic Income in western economies is inevitable. A worker is after all someone else's customer and sometimes even their own.

As automation replaces mindless, repetitive, mundane tasks, human labour can be re-allocated to more productive uses. Robots will become smaller, more "dexterous" and designed to work alongside human workers, this will be the next "industrial" revolution.

What's the difference between universal basic income and an unemployment benefit?

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#21 2016-11-20 22:58:47

BuggedOut
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From: New South Wales
Registered: 2015-07-21
Posts: 1,772
Trades :   36 

Re: Universal basic income

JulieW wrote:

It's an attempt to deal with all those human robots who're being replaced by actual robots.

If that is true then it's a ham-fisted one.  I personally doubt it is true, it is more about big government, their growing intrusion into every aspect of citizen life and instituting dependency (or at best, co-dependency).

I don't have a problem with a safety net.  The way welfare was originally intended - to stop people falling between the cracks of society and landing in poverty.  If they can't, or won't work then the very basic level income keeps them from resorting to crime and degenerating society, but it shouldn't be so much that it is granting them luxuries.  Food, shelter, clothes.

I don't even have a problem with paying a bit extra for those who are actively looking for work, training, educating or otherwise "having a go".  But the rest of us who can hold our head above water, leave us be and stop taxing the life out of us.  The real % of people who actually NEED a safety net is actually quite small.   There is no justification for any "universal" aspect, it's just another scheme being pushed by big nanny-state government.

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#22 2016-11-20 23:05:56

fscked
Member
From: The Shire
Registered: 2015-08-22
Posts: 159
Trades :   

Re: Universal basic income

FullMetalFever wrote:
SMHTool wrote:

Yet if we are honest, those of us with good jobs should probably admit that we have them largely through luck and the accident of where we were born. Much of our income isn't the result of our own efforts, it's a dividend from our society – a dividend we deny those without those jobs.

Getting good grades in High School, completing a 4 year Uni degree and then building a career for 15 years including spending large sums on training courses, etc. and this tool wants people like me to admit that I've got my "good" job due to luck and where I was born (which wasn't in Oz btw, let alone the affluent suburbs)???

GAGF you bloody dimwit. Everyone reaps what they sow and I'd be loathe to share (more of) my harvest with those who neglect to sow at all.

You sound like a White Male, mate. In which case you don't recognize your own privilege. [/sarcasm] But seriously, I'll bet the Sydney Morning Herald actually would respond like this.

I might be the only one here that would actually like to be given the money then? I make decent money for a single, white, cis, male with my own properties. Give it to me and I'll just invest it or pay down mortgages with it. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth lol

I assume it will be given to all of us? Regardless of our current incomes, not just the unemployable art students?

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#23 2016-11-20 23:29:01

mmm....shiney!
Silver Stacker
From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 15,915
Trades :   102 
Website

Re: Universal basic income

JulieW wrote:

Go for a walk at night in Glasgow, or Dandenong etc. or some places in the daytime and see what you think about a universal income.

A universal basic income would be a poor strategy in dealing with crime and anti-social behaviour, all it would result in would be groups of cashed up criminally minded, anti-social thugs roaming the streets of Glasgow or Dandenong. A more effective policy would be the abolition of minimum wage standards which make it illegal for low-skilled people to obtain work.


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#24 2016-11-20 23:43:52

JulieW
Silver Stacker
From: Australia
Registered: 2010-10-14
Posts: 11,097

Re: Universal basic income

As I understand it, the Universal Basic Income model is proposing that it replace social service benefits (and its associated industry - meaning of course more unemployment), so it encourages work, in that, what you earn working as an employee or entrepreneur is the cream on the Mare Antoinette Cake.

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#25 2016-11-20 23:46:09

FullMetalFever
Member
From: Melbourne
Registered: 2012-08-06
Posts: 337
Trades :   16 

Re: Universal basic income

fscked wrote:
FullMetalFever wrote:
SMHTool wrote:

Yet if we are honest, those of us with good jobs should probably admit that we have them largely through luck and the accident of where we were born. Much of our income isn't the result of our own efforts, it's a dividend from our society – a dividend we deny those without those jobs.

Getting good grades in High School, completing a 4 year Uni degree and then building a career for 15 years including spending large sums on training courses, etc. and this tool wants people like me to admit that I've got my "good" job due to luck and where I was born (which wasn't in Oz btw, let alone the affluent suburbs)???

GAGF you bloody dimwit. Everyone reaps what they sow and I'd be loathe to share (more of) my harvest with those who neglect to sow at all.

You sound like a White Male, mate. In which case you don't recognize your own privilege. [/sarcasm] But seriously, I'll bet the Sydney Morning Herald actually would respond like this.

I might be the only one here that would actually like to be given the money then? I make decent money for a single, white, cis, male with my own properties. Give it to me and I'll just invest it or pay down mortgages with it. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth lol

I assume it will be given to all of us? Regardless of our current incomes, not just the unemployable art students?

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if that was how the SMH responded. And judging by their reader base (or more fairly - those who comment) they would have much agreement.

As far as wanting the "free money" ....... well I'm CERTAIN that the result for someone who is gainfully employed in a decent job would be a net loss. As mentioned in the article, they would look at things such as removing the tax-free threshold (and no doubt messing with the brackets). So in effect, I could see myself being charged an extra $12,000 p/a in tax (at least) and then receiving my "gift" from the government in the form of a $12,000 cheque.

And yet, some of the numbnuts on that site talk about the efficiency gains of such a system as justification ... roll

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