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  • » Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

#26 2016-11-15 10:38:50

Phil_Stacker
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From: Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Registered: 2016-11-05
Posts: 266
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Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

REDBACK wrote:

Go all in~
Why not?
Don't stand to loose much

If you aren't earning money in real terms (your asset increasing at least CPI/Inflation), you are losing money. So you only have money to lose. 

As Ainslie say, "Balance your wealth in an unbalanced world."

If even the people selling you the product tell you don't go all in.... so maybe don't go all in.

Maybe... just maybe... you are right and this is the single best investment to be in.  But if almost everyone in the world is wrong... maybe they aren't.  A hell of a lot of people have a hell of a lot of interest in keeping the economy going at almost any cost, even if they have to take extraordinarily damaging steps to keep things going as-is.

Just make sure you set specific check-points that will "confirm" whether your beliefs are valid or not (i.e. hold your sources to their predictions over a specific period).

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#27 2016-11-15 10:45:12

Phil_Stacker
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From: Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Registered: 2016-11-05
Posts: 266
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Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

Oh - and you can't have coins, they would have to be NOT held by you, they would need to be in bullion storage with insurance. The stupid tax man insists that you can't hang onto it because it is a tax for your retirement, not your asset that you control and can benefit from.  I'm serious - if you buy an investment car it is illegal for you to drive it to a garage for servicing.  If you own investment art it must be locked away and NOT on your wall.  WTF?  What does the government have to gain from pulling this crud?  Super sucks.

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#28 2016-11-15 21:51:30

placeholderz
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Registered: 2016-11-14
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Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

mmm....shiney! wrote:

Shop around for alternatives to eSuperfund. They have strict rules regarding compliance which are not consistently enforced, until the day they enforce them - and then it's see you later and you're left with "no correspondence will be entered into".

What do you mean by this: "strict rules regarding compliance which are not consistently enforced, until the day they enforce them"?

Any suggestions on setting up my SMSF? I imagine it would be very simpke, $55-60,000 in metals, some cash, maybe a few thousand, in a savings account for fees and buffer or for buying a few more bullion.

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#29 2016-11-15 22:00:42

placeholderz
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Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

Phil_Stacker wrote:

Oh - and you can't have coins, they would have to be NOT held by you.

So I can only buy gold and silver in cast bullion form? Does the weight matter? Can I buy cast metal in 1 ounces?

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#30 2016-11-15 22:56:04

Bullion Baron
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From: Adelaide
Registered: 2009-09-14
Posts: 7,298
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Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

placeholderz wrote:

Early 30's. The whole lot in PM's because I just became a gold bug and, having read Jim Rickards, I don't think I can trust other financial assets at this juncture. I give it five years before I give up and might go back to an index fund or whatever. But for now, I have strong desire to be in physical.

Last I heard Jim Rickards suggested holding 10% of a portfolio in gold.

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#31 2016-11-15 23:57:42

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

placeholderz wrote:

What do you mean by this: "strict rules regarding compliance which are not consistently enforced, until the day they enforce them"?

It means they have strict automated process for doing things online which is why they are cheap.
I've had few issues with them though (just in terms of a commercial property purchase), no issues with metal.

Any suggestions on setting up my SMSF?

Use esuperfund, it's by far the easiest solution to get going. IF you don't like them in the future then just get someone else to do your compliance and return, you are locked into them.

I imagine it would be very simpke, $55-60,000 in metals, some cash, maybe a few thousand, in a savings account for fees and buffer or for buying a few more bullion.

It is easy for someone who knows what they are doing. For the average Joe, not so much.

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#32 2016-11-15 23:59:36

SilverDJ
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From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

placeholderz wrote:

So I can only buy gold and silver in cast bullion form? Does the weight matter? Can I buy cast metal in 1 ounces?

No ,it can be cast or minted bars, or blobs, or rounds. Just buy any cast or minted bar or round you like.
Weight does not matter.

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#33 2016-11-16 02:57:55

mmm....shiney!
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From: 昆士蘭
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Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

placeholderz wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:

Shop around for alternatives to eSuperfund. They have strict rules regarding compliance which are not consistently enforced, until the day they enforce them - and then it's see you later and you're left with "no correspondence will be entered into".

What do you mean by this: "strict rules regarding compliance which are not consistently enforced, until the day they enforce them"?

Like giving them a phone call to ensure that my investments were within their guidelines and told "Yes they are", then getting a letter from them at tax time saying they have closed my account for breaching their investment guidelines  even though I was given advice by them that it was ok. No point taking it up with them as once they've made a decision they do not correspond.

Didn't cost me anything mind you, except a headache in rushing around trying to find a new accountant. In the end it was a good deal for me as they gave me the flick after my 12month free period with them.


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#34 2016-11-16 03:45:56

SilverDJ
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From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

mmm....shiney! wrote:

Like giving them a phone call to ensure that my investments were within their guidelines and told "Yes they are", then getting a letter from them at tax time saying they have closed my account for breaching their investment guidelines  even though I was given advice by them that it was ok. No point taking it up with them as once they've made a decision they do not correspond.

What investment(s) was this?

And yes, for those who are worried about such a thing, esuperfund closing your account does not close down your SMSF, your bank accounts, or anything else. It simply means you have to find someone else to file your return for you. Most regular accountants can actually do this.

Last edited by SilverDJ (2016-11-16 03:47:05)

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#35 2016-11-16 04:59:36

mmm....shiney!
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From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
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Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

I'll send you a PM dj


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#36 2016-11-16 05:13:55

REDBACK
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From: Trump supporters matter
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 3,311

Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

All in brother
All in

REDBACK


"Buy now Cry later!!"

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#37 2016-11-16 07:34:27

House
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From: Stack City
Registered: 2012-04-30
Posts: 9,635
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Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

REDBACK wrote:

All in brother
All in

REDBACK

Your signature does not bode well for that kind of advice wink


WBI- 41.16

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#38 2016-12-05 18:09:41

[email protected]
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From: Australia
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Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

Hey Placeholderz - just as an FYI i set up my own SMSF with a similar value to what you're discussing

If you want to chat about how it works re holding direct gold inside an SMSF and storing with Custodian Vaults - plus making sure you're compliant re insurance/valuations/ongoing reporting - then feel free to call through to ABC Bullion, and ask to speak to either myself, John Feeney or Greg Hudson

We work with a lot of trustees so can answer any questions you might have.

Cheers
Jordan

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#39 2016-12-05 22:12:00

aleks
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From: Karl-Marx-Allee
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Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

SilverDJ wrote:
Bullion Baron wrote:

Have you costed up the difference between a SMSF vs a super fund that allows you buy a physically backed ETF such as PMGOLD?

The SMSF will cost:
https://www.esuperfund.com.au/fees/fee- … e/new-smsf

$800 + $259 + $250 storage = $1309 a year. Not including the metal buy charge.
On a $60k fund that is 2.18% a year.

This. 2.2% is a lot.

Last edited by aleks (2016-12-05 22:17:54)


Only you have your best financial interest at heart, be your own guru

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#40 2016-12-05 22:36:29

SilverDJ
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From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

aleks wrote:
SilverDJ wrote:
Bullion Baron wrote:

Have you costed up the difference between a SMSF vs a super fund that allows you buy a physically backed ETF such as PMGOLD?

The SMSF will cost:
https://www.esuperfund.com.au/fees/fee- … e/new-smsf

$800 + $259 + $250 storage = $1309 a year. Not including the metal buy charge.
On a $60k fund that is 2.18% a year.

This. 2.2% is a lot.

Yes, it's a lot, but not if you believe your investments will be better than the super funds.
Also, it's pretty cool being able to access that money yourself, and for many that alone is worth the fee.

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#41 2016-12-05 23:02:14

aleks
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From: Karl-Marx-Allee
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Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

Do you mean control rather than access? As Bullion Baron has mentioned there are other cheaper options where do you have control over your investments.


Only you have your best financial interest at heart, be your own guru

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#42 2016-12-05 23:35:47

SilverDJ
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From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

aleks wrote:

Do you mean control rather than access? As Bullion Baron has mentioned there are other cheaper options where do you have control over your investments.

Both access and control.
Sign the SMSF forms and a little while later you have access to a bank account with the cash. It feels pretty darn good. You can buy gold bars and sleep with them if that's your thing.

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#43 2016-12-05 23:40:48

aleks
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From: Karl-Marx-Allee
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Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

Yes you can hold your bars tight at night, but legally they aren't yours.

Last edited by aleks (2016-12-05 23:41:46)


Only you have your best financial interest at heart, be your own guru

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#44 2016-12-06 02:50:36

SilverDJ
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From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

aleks wrote:

Yes you can hold your bars tight at night, but legally they aren't yours.

I'm pretty sure I'm the Trustee of my own SMSF big_smile
That's the whole point.
If the Trustee's aren't legally the owners, who is the legal owner then?
The government? Nope.
Santa Clause? Nope.

Don't confuse legal ownership with the inability to gain "personal use" of a SMSF asset, it's not the same thing.

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#45 2016-12-06 03:05:56

SilverDJ
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From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

aleks wrote:

Do you mean control rather than access? As Bullion Baron has mentioned there are other cheaper options where do you have control over your investments.

The other thing to note with access is that you have genuinely have 100% access to the cash, no one stopping you from taking it right now and doing what you want, subject to the government finding out in a year or two's time of course and pursuing you.

If it really did come to a Mad Max style SHTF scenario, my SMSF cash (and existing metal) is a few clicks away from being withdrawn immediately.

Or even a more realistic scenario - let's say you got given 6 months to live or whatever, getting your normal super money before retirement age in those circumstances is possible, but there is paperwork involved and there have been reported cases of super companies dicking people around and they spend their dying days trying to get the money.
Having instant access to your own super money can be very worthwhile. It's for the the situations you can't think of.

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#46 2016-12-06 04:07:49

aleks
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From: Karl-Marx-Allee
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Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

This instant access you speak of, or what you are insinuating is highly illegal, aside from dem feels you get of withdrawing cash and buying bullion in your funds name, good luck with that.


Only you have your best financial interest at heart, be your own guru

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#47 2016-12-06 06:34:22

SilverDJ
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From: Australia
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Posts: 2,527

Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

aleks wrote:

This instant access you speak of, or what you are insinuating is highly illegal

Err, no, the access itself is not the least bit illegal, that's how SMSF work.
When you set up a SMSF, the bank account is under the control and ownership of the Trustees (that's you or me) under the ABN name of the SMSF. In fact mine is linked with my existing personal Commbank login, so I see the SMSF account and money as part of my Commbank "Summary position" total every time I log in.
Trustees's (and nobody else) are required to have access to the bank account, that's how it works!

Aside from dem feels you get of withdrawing cash and buying bullion in your funds name, good luck with that.

There is nothing illegal about that either, it is entirely consistent and allowed under SMSF law if you cared to look.
I can legally walk into the bank, withdraw SMSF cash, walk into a bullion dealer and buy bullion with that cash and then keep that bullion under my mattress or bury it in the backyard if I want. The only requirement is that I have the bullion dealer receipt it to the SMSF ABN number (and provide that receipt scan to my SMSF auditor).

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#48 2016-12-06 07:11:55

aleks
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From: Karl-Marx-Allee
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Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

Congratulations for understanding the ins and outs of an SMSF, I have done what you describe; walked into a bank, withdrawn cash from the account and bought bullion in my SMSF and yes there is nothing wrong with doing that. Aside from that ...

SilverDJ wrote:

The other thing to note with access is that you have genuinely have 100% access to the cash, no one stopping you from taking it right now and doing what you want, subject to the government finding out in a year or two's time of course and pursuing you.

roll

If you don't hold it can't spend it you down own it tongue

Last edited by aleks (2016-12-06 07:28:00)


Only you have your best financial interest at heart, be your own guru

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#49 2016-12-06 07:26:17

aleks
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From: Karl-Marx-Allee
Registered: 2010-10-14
Posts: 2,392
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Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

ANYWAY

ingdirect.com.au/superannuation/tips-hi … -lics.html

20% GOLD
20% ETPMAG
20% ETPMPM
20% NCM
20% cash/other investments

all up about 0.5% management fees per year, on a $60K balance. If you want crack cocaine all in type level of leverage to gold replace the etfs with smaller miners. 

In no way is this to be considered investment advice

This just gave me a new idea for another topic lol

Last edited by aleks (2016-12-06 07:31:36)


Only you have your best financial interest at heart, be your own guru

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#50 2016-12-06 19:06:24

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Thinking about setting up Esuperfund + Custodian Vaults for $60,000 PM

aleks wrote:

Congratulations for understanding the ins and outs of an SMSF, I have done what you describe; walked into a bank, withdrawn cash from the account and bought bullion in my SMSF and yes there is nothing wrong with doing that. Aside from that ...

SilverDJ wrote:

The other thing to note with access is that you have genuinely have 100% access to the cash, no one stopping you from taking it right now and doing what you want, subject to the government finding out in a year or two's time of course and pursuing you.

roll

You still don't get it? Seriously?

I'm discussing two separate things here:
1) Having access to your super money. A SMSF gives you direct access to the cash, but of course it's not legal to just go spend it willy-willy. But it does have a benefit in that you can get the money without any else's permission, and that can be a (legal) benefit in some circumstances. Of course I don't advocate illegally taking the money, but in reality if you really really wanted to you could just take the money and face the consequences several years down the track because you have that direct access to it that you don't have with any other super fund.

2) The scenario I outlined about withdrawing cash and buying bullion receipted to your SMSF ABN and storing in under your matress is 100% legal and within the rules of SMSF's. If you don't believe that, go read the rules.

If you don't hold it can't spend it you down own it tongue

And I ask you again, who legally owns it then? The tooth fairy?

Last edited by SilverDJ (2016-12-06 19:11:39)

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