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#51 2016-10-03 00:03:00

Big A.D.
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Ipv6Ready wrote:

Wind power drove coal out in of the market, with coal there would have been enough base load.

With better connections to the Eastern states' grid there would have been enough base load.


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#52 2016-10-03 00:04:46

Mintaka
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

That is the problem with Greens. They don't understand the reality and thus make bad and expensive decisions, such as mothballing cheap and reliable electricity in favour of expensive and unreliable electricity to fix a non problem. (AGW).
Visit JoNova or WUWT to read about how investment in wind power made system unstable.  Or just remain convinced that wind turbines are fine. Your choice.


Rest In Peace, Amjad Mohammed Ben Sasi. May your name live long and true in a world full of lies.

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#53 2016-10-03 00:14:17

SpacePete
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Big A.D. wrote:
Ipv6Ready wrote:

Wind power drove coal out in of the market, with coal there would have been enough base load.

With better connections to the Eastern states' grid there would have been enough base load.

There's an interconnect with Victoria but that has been knocked out before too:

It also experienced a blackout in some parts of Adelaide, Barossa Valley, Port Pirie and west coast region late last year. That was blamed on the failure of the interconnector.

Electricity supplier ElectraNet said the disruption was caused by an incident at a substation in Mingboll, in the state's southeast that blocked supply from Victoria. It took about three hours to restore power to about 110,000 customers.

Last edited by SpacePete (2016-10-03 00:14:56)


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#54 2016-10-03 00:17:39

raven
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Maybe S.A. is being set up for Nuclear !
smile

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#55 2016-10-03 00:26:09

Big A.D.
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Mintaka wrote:

That is the problem with Greens. They don't understand the reality and thus make bad and expensive decisions, such as mothballing cheap and reliable electricity in favour of expensive and unreliable electricity to fix a non problem. (AGW).

Wait, I've been reliably informed that coal power was pushed out of S.A. because it was being undercut by cheap wind power.

So now wind power is expensive and unreliable? Please choose one and stick with it.

Visit JoNova or WUWT to read about how investment in wind power made system unstable.  Or just remain convinced that wind turbines are fine. Your choice.

Wind turbines are fine.

The rest of the grid infrastructure is not. You can tell because it starts falling down in a strong wind.


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#56 2016-10-03 00:26:19

SpacePete
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

raven wrote:

Maybe S.A. is being set up for Nuclear !
smile

A nuclear industry in SA would align with plans to switch the new French subs to a nuclear variant halfway through the contract, along with plans to create one of the world's largest nuclear waste sites in the state.


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#57 2016-10-03 00:43:26

Skyrocket
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

raven wrote:

Maybe S.A. is being set up for Nuclear !
smile


Don't risk Australia for SA. Let them stay in the dark.

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#58 2016-10-03 01:11:45

Big A.D.
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Skyrocket wrote:
raven wrote:

Maybe S.A. is being set up for Nuclear !
smile


Don't risk Australia for SA. Let them stay in the dark.

Are you thinking about Cold War era nuke tech that was designed to make bombs, or modern nuke tech that's designed to eat Cold War era bombs?


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#59 2016-10-03 01:15:57

Skyrocket
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Big A.D. wrote:
Skyrocket wrote:
raven wrote:

Maybe S.A. is being set up for Nuclear !
smile


Don't risk Australia for SA. Let them stay in the dark.

Are you thinking about Cold War era nuke tech that was designed to make bombs, or modern nuke tech that's designed to eat Cold War era bombs?

I'm thinking of the great dangers associated with nuclear reactors. No such thing as a safe one and the consequences are very grave.

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#60 2016-10-03 01:21:38

Big A.D.
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Skyrocket wrote:
Big A.D. wrote:
Skyrocket wrote:

Don't risk Australia for SA. Let them stay in the dark.

Are you thinking about Cold War era nuke tech that was designed to make bombs, or modern nuke tech that's designed to eat Cold War era bombs?

I'm thinking of the great dangers associated with nuclear reactors. No such thing as a safe one and the consequences are very grave.

Right, so you basically haven't been paying attention for forty years while people were designing and building safe ones ('cause, you know, maybe building dangerous ones wasn't such a great idea).

Just wanted to check.


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#61 2016-10-03 01:39:33

SteveS
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

In recent years, more people have been killed working with wind turbines than with nuclear power plants. In one incident, two poor young technicians died when they were stuck on the top of a turbine that had caught fire - something that seems to happen fairly frequently. One jumped and died, the other burned alive. There's plenty of footage online of the damn things combusting.

Last edited by SteveS (2016-10-03 01:40:04)


I intend to live forever. So far, so good.

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#62 2016-10-03 01:45:30

Skyrocket
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Big A.D. wrote:
Skyrocket wrote:
Big A.D. wrote:

Are you thinking about Cold War era nuke tech that was designed to make bombs, or modern nuke tech that's designed to eat Cold War era bombs?

I'm thinking of the great dangers associated with nuclear reactors. No such thing as a safe one and the consequences are very grave.

Right, so you basically haven't been paying attention for forty years while people were designing and building safe ones ('cause, you know, maybe building dangerous ones wasn't such a great idea).

Just wanted to check.

And you didn't read my post on the previous page why I am against nuclear power in OZ.

http://forums.silverstackers.com/messag … ml#p958875

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#63 2016-10-03 02:55:49

betterlatethannever
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Currawong wrote:

ElectraNet net were warned that the towers built decades ago to outdated standards had imsufficient footings and would not stand up to winds the likes of which SA saw.
Seriously, I've put bigger footings on sheds I've built than were on those towers. So lax maintenance was the cause.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/na … 6fcb6e1999

But isn't the state government suppose to oversee such things and make sure that vital infrastructure like electricity is guaranteed.apparently not  hmm 

I wonder how many more people will now leave S.A. after such a debacle on top of the employment struggles that people already face,plenty is my guess.

If you cannot be relied upon to provide electricity not to mention H2O how bad could it get - Time To Move To Victoria  big_smile


SPECIAL NOTE - Supporting The Nation Of Israel 100% Of The Time 100% - Shalom.

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#64 2016-10-03 03:35:56

Big A.D.
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From: Sydney
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Skyrocket wrote:
Big A.D. wrote:
Skyrocket wrote:

I'm thinking of the great dangers associated with nuclear reactors. No such thing as a safe one and the consequences are very grave.

Right, so you basically haven't been paying attention for forty years while people were designing and building safe ones ('cause, you know, maybe building dangerous ones wasn't such a great idea).

Just wanted to check.

And you didn't read my post on the previous page why I am against nuclear power in OZ.

http://forums.silverstackers.com/messag … ml#p958875

I did, but you're clearly ill-informed about modern nuclear technology so it's as irrelevant as the post I quoted.


I am the Leafy Sea Dragon.

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#65 2016-10-03 07:51:29

Currawong
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

betterlatethannever wrote:
Currawong wrote:

ElectraNet net were warned that the towers built decades ago to outdated standards had imsufficient footings and would not stand up to winds the likes of which SA saw.
Seriously, I've put bigger footings on sheds I've built than were on those towers. So lax maintenance was the cause.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/na … 6fcb6e1999

But isn't the state government suppose to oversee such things and make sure that vital infrastructure like electricity is guaranteed.apparently not  hmm 

I wonder how many more people will now leave S.A. after such a debacle on top of the employment struggles that people already face,plenty is my guess.

If you cannot be relied upon to provide electricity not to mention H2O how bad could it get - Time To Move To Victoria  big_smile

Not as far as I'm aware. After the privatisation of the ETSA (and the SECV in Victoria) generation, distribution, retail and maintenance of all those facets passed to the new owners. The role of the state (or federal agencies) is only to set standards like voltage (230v +10% -5%), frequency (50 Hz +/- 1 or 2%), reliability and other electrical standards such as AS 3000 and to inforce the safety of electrical installations through licensing agencies like EnergySafe in Victoria. AEMO is only responsible for administering the federal grid, planning new sections of the grid and making sure retailers don't do things like form cartels.


Clawhammer wrote:

Yup, these are nowhere near good enough.
Whom ever put these in who thought they would never get caught will soon find out why you shouldn't cut corners...


http://forums.silverstackers.com/upload … ges-16.jpg

Yeah, some of those sections of the network were built in the 70's. Probably just built to old standards for tower construction that have since been updated (go look at some of the more modern high tension towers in residential areas, they've huge footings) and would've never foresaw 100+ km/h winds.

Last edited by Currawong (2016-10-03 09:06:51)

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#66 2016-10-03 08:26:59

Ipv6Ready
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

what has to happen is that SA has to look generating baseload, maybe they might have to subsidise coal and gas.

Having an interconnect to NSW will help alleviate protection shut down but it won't help with $10,000 mWh

As it stands when there is no wind generation during peak time - SA runs the gauntlet of ridiculous power cost.

From what I read and put two and two together SA gas generators must be thinking of shutting down as well, now that would be interesting.


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#67 2017-02-08 18:28:27

Ipv6Ready
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Down again last night

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-08/s … nt/8252512


SA government blames the Energy Regulators for ordering the rolling blackout, But they say

Australian Energy Market Operator disputed some claims that it was to blame and it was preparing an "urgent report" on the blackout.

"The point in South Australia was that there was a lack of supply because the wind was only down to providing 2.5 per cent of South Australia's energy needs," he said.

"That's a lot less than is otherwise expected and that is one of the problems we have with intermittent sources of power."

There will be more news coming out, as the Data Centre we run in SA with 2000 racks was asked to go off grid by turning on diesel generators less than 2 km from the CBD lol.


WTB 4 to 6 grams of pure gold. Don't care if it is coin, bar or granules. Near spot, suits anyone who has been tempted to open a certicard or just have some granules to make a ring

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#68 2017-02-08 20:09:44

renovator
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

First world country in 2017 & cant supply constant power ?. What a joke SA has become.
Idiots in power closing power stations & wont contribute the $ to federal guv to rectify it  ...tightass dickheads listen to the greens too much .

Alternative power is great until.......

They have no one to blame but themselves ...morons


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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#69 2017-02-08 20:45:22

SpacePete
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

renovator wrote:

First world country in 2017 & cant supply constant power ?. What a joke SA has become.
Idiots in power closing power stations & wont contribute the $ to federal guv to rectify it  ...tightass dickheads listen to the greens too much .

Alternative power is great until.......

They have no one to blame but themselves ...morons

They had the generator capacity ready to handle such peak loads. Strangely they chose not to use it. There's something more going on here:

State Energy Minister Tom Koutsantonis said: "Every South Australian has a right to be angry. We had spare capacity in the SA generation market and the market didn't turn that generation on

"The second unit at Pelican Point (power station) could've been turned on last night, it had gas, was ready to go and it wasn't turned on. The national market isn't working," he said.

"We (the State Government) have been taking advice from the market operator and others but after last night we have to reassess. We will do what's necessary to make sure SA has sufficient generation," Mr Koutsantonis said.

"It's my understanding that AEMO (Australian Energy Market Operator) was made aware more generation was available and chose not to turn that generation on. Serious questions have to be asked about why we had generation available that wasn't used."


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#70 2017-02-08 21:45:32

Ipv6Ready
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

From what I gather they had capacity to produce more... but

no gas, so gas generator couldn't increase power
coal well that's dirty, and they closed it.
Interconnector was at full capacity

Plainly SA is living the renewal energy dream,

cheap and clean or no electricity.


WTB 4 to 6 grams of pure gold. Don't care if it is coin, bar or granules. Near spot, suits anyone who has been tempted to open a certicard or just have some granules to make a ring

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#71 2017-02-08 21:47:47

renovator
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

SpacePete wrote:
renovator wrote:

First world country in 2017 & cant supply constant power ?. What a joke SA has become.
Idiots in power closing power stations & wont contribute the $ to federal guv to rectify it  ...tightass dickheads listen to the greens too much .

Alternative power is great until.......

They have no one to blame but themselves ...morons

They had the generator capacity ready to handle such peak loads. Strangely they chose not to use it. There's something more going on here:

State Energy Minister Tom Koutsantonis said: "Every South Australian has a right to be angry. We had spare capacity in the SA generation market and the market didn't turn that generation on

"The second unit at Pelican Point (power station) could've been turned on last night, it had gas, was ready to go and it wasn't turned on. The national market isn't working," he said.

"We (the State Government) have been taking advice from the market operator and others but after last night we have to reassess. We will do what's necessary to make sure SA has sufficient generation," Mr Koutsantonis said.

"It's my understanding that AEMO (Australian Energy Market Operator) was made aware more generation was available and chose not to turn that generation on. Serious questions have to be asked about why we had generation available that wasn't used."

I call bullshit . if you had it why on earth would you not use it? Better to cut 40000 homes power off instead.?
I think they are just covering their arse so they stop looking like the dickheads they are by turning off power staions.& over estimating their alternative sources.


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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#72 2017-02-08 21:52:58

SpacePete
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Ipv6Ready wrote:

From what I gather they had capacity to produce more... but

no gas, so gas generator couldn't increase power
coal well that's dirty, and they closed it.
Interconnector was at full capacity

Plainly SA is living the renewal energy dream,

cheap and clean or no electricity.

They had the gas according to the news. Are there any update with further details?


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#73 2017-02-08 21:55:27

SpacePete
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

renovator wrote:
SpacePete wrote:
renovator wrote:

First world country in 2017 & cant supply constant power ?. What a joke SA has become.
Idiots in power closing power stations & wont contribute the $ to federal guv to rectify it  ...tightass dickheads listen to the greens too much .

Alternative power is great until.......

They have no one to blame but themselves ...morons

They had the generator capacity ready to handle such peak loads. Strangely they chose not to use it. There's something more going on here:

State Energy Minister Tom Koutsantonis said: "Every South Australian has a right to be angry. We had spare capacity in the SA generation market and the market didn't turn that generation on

"The second unit at Pelican Point (power station) could've been turned on last night, it had gas, was ready to go and it wasn't turned on. The national market isn't working," he said.

"We (the State Government) have been taking advice from the market operator and others but after last night we have to reassess. We will do what's necessary to make sure SA has sufficient generation," Mr Koutsantonis said.

"It's my understanding that AEMO (Australian Energy Market Operator) was made aware more generation was available and chose not to turn that generation on. Serious questions have to be asked about why we had generation available that wasn't used."

I call bullshit . if you had it why on earth would you not use it? Better to cut 40000 homes power off instead.?
I think they are just covering their arse so they stop looking like the dickheads they are by turning off power staions.& over estimating their alternative sources.

That's the question. If they had the capacity ready to turn on, why didn't they? I bet it is more to do with a cost calculation and energy contracts. The decision to cut power could be a result of a profit motive, not a lack of supply.

This is an interesting one. It's seems more to be a market based decision based on initial reports.


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#74 2017-02-08 21:59:59

SpacePete
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

This is interesting. What do they mean here?

In a statement today, AEMO said it issued a notice to all generators requesting a "market response to be provided due to increased demand as a result of the high temperatures in South Australia".

"AEMO did not receive sufficient bids into the market to maintain the supply/demand balance in South Australia," the statement said.


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#75 2017-02-08 22:43:46

renovator
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From: QLD
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

SpacePete wrote:

This is interesting. What do they mean here?

In a statement today, AEMO said it issued a notice to all generators requesting a "market response to be provided due to increased demand as a result of the high temperatures in South Australia".

"AEMO did not receive sufficient bids into the market to maintain the supply/demand balance in South Australia," the statement said.

I watched turnbull explain it as clear as it could be put the other day on either the press club speech or question time cant remember which one & SA just does not have enough baseload supply since closing the power stations for their "feelgood" ambitions which is biting them on the butt now. He also said SA didnt want to contribute towards a fix . They would rather wank off about their green credentials than supply reliable power for the state. Buying power off other states & supplementing their green choice isnt working out for them is it ?

Turnbull isnt my favourite politician but when he gets cornered he tells it straight in real business terms.

He also said something that i think is pertinent that oz is one of the biggest coal exporters & we should be leading the field on development of clean coal energy plants not shutting coal plants down as SA did .


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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