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#26 2016-09-29 00:04:01

Skyrocket
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From: Melbourne
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Let SA stay without power for all I care  tongue

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#27 2016-09-29 00:24:07

errol43
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

When the floods hit us here in Bundaberg, we had no power for days...What can you expect when a huge storm hits? If the transmission lines go down it doesn't matter what generates your power, off it goes!

Seems like this time in SA, there was too much wind and not enough sun. smile

You mexicans are becoming softer as the years go by. smile

24 hrs without power, how will we ever cope?


Regards Errol 43

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#28 2016-09-29 00:33:37

Shaddam IV
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From: House Corrino
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

When the Fukushima plant was built there were new Volkswagen Beetles in car show rooms. Reactor technology has moved on since then.

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#29 2016-09-29 01:36:57

Currawong
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

SpacePete wrote:

Hospitals should have backup generators (I hope they've tested them previously) but I wonder what happens to people with home medical equipment that requires power?

Hospitals are required to test their generators frequently. As for people who have home medical equipment and require electricity most retailers generally encourage them to purchase a generator and have an electrician install an automatic transfer switch within their switchboard.


On the blackout itself, SA has an inadequate number of interstate powerlines (which is also why power costs so much more in SA).
After the ETSA was privatised (by the LNP btw) the new retailers deliberately decided not to build the ties because it would allow them to monopolise the sale of power in SA (if you can't import power off the NEM you can't sell it).
Queue the storms, wind turbines are tuned off because they can't work in high winds (I can go into the why's if anyone wishes), storms destroy a section of the state grid, this places to much demand on the interstate ties to the Victorian network, automatic load shedding occurs to protect the rest of the nation from a cascade failure and bam (literally): an entire state looses power.

Ultimately it was caused by an over reliance on a single type of power source, post privatisation monopolisation of the state grid and politicians getting involved in issues that should be managed by engineers.

Bring on the nuclear power (or solar thermal) and a bigger, better national grid.

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#30 2016-09-29 03:16:33

Skyrocket
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Currawong wrote:

Bring on the nuclear power (or solar thermal) and a bigger, better national grid.

Nuclear power plants are dangerous and always will be.  Don't need them.  Why risk Australia?  For SA?  Let them stay in the dark.

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#31 2016-09-30 18:23:15

Ipv6Ready
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Skyrocket wrote:
Currawong wrote:

Bring on the nuclear power (or solar thermal) and a bigger, better national grid.

Nuclear power plants are dangerous and always will be.  Don't need them.  Why risk Australia?  For SA?  Let them stay in the dark.

If it's in woop woop near between maralinga and Olympic dam why would it be dangerous, no ones died from the 12 nuclear bombs exploded there.


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#32 2016-09-30 19:56:22

Skyrocket
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Ipv6Ready wrote:
Skyrocket wrote:
Currawong wrote:

Bring on the nuclear power (or solar thermal) and a bigger, better national grid.

Nuclear power plants are dangerous and always will be.  Don't need them.  Why risk Australia?  For SA?  Let them stay in the dark.

If it's in woop woop near between maralinga and Olympic dam why would it be dangerous, no ones died from the 12 nuclear bombs exploded there.


Accidents can happen like human error at Chernobyl. Do we want to f... up Australia because one dumb state cannot manage it's electricity?

Also, an old wise mans ET friends said that all nuclear power plants give off harmful effects that our equipment is not able to pick up yet.

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#33 2016-09-30 20:14:40

Ipv6Ready
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Maralinga is already Radiactive - we detonated 10 nuclear bombs there already
Olympic Dam is were we dig up radioactive uranium already

The area is already ring fenced with "Warning Keep Out Radioactive"

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSKDg8bHwzIBqQpH1CsqfxYjXziYsZATIENZ5XvWvllARmmk4euE0eJPcSw
Source: web

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRepN5mNnKyjKmaUNCCp82mb4wS23YOCpkBxOVcJ4uvPlelo-LiTQ
Source: web

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSe0NawCNw2HLhrintUwXBlVnGsQCo5nJdFICWn8OT8HypT9PNwPT2Njh8_
Source: web

Last edited by Ipv6Ready (2016-09-30 20:23:45)


WTB 4 to 6 grams of pure gold. Don't care if it is coin, bar or granules. Near spot, suits anyone who has been tempted to open a certicard or just have some granules to make a ring

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#34 2016-09-30 20:39:22

SpacePete
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

An issue with a monolithic, privatised nuclear power plant would be that security costs, and any subsequent cleanup or decommissioning costs would likely be born mostly by the public. There are better options if we are prepared to wait a little...

Given our low population density, a more distributed approach may be better. If claims of fusion reactors that fit on the back of a large truck come to fruition within a couple of decades then several of these in each state may be far better as a complement to other power generation technologies. In the interim, and as a contingency, I'm sure we can find a reasonable comprise using a range of solutions that don't commit the nation to what would potentially be a very expensive white elephant.

Last edited by SpacePete (2016-09-30 20:40:08)


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#35 2016-09-30 20:44:47

Ipv6Ready
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

I agree with you on some of your points, but in an area that is naturally radioactive (uranium ore) or where we already nuked the area, what clean up cost would there be?

It's not like I'm advocating building it in upper Adelaide. And I'm all for distributed electricity, but why eliminate technology that is proven and when we have the most perfect areas to build it.

Fusion is a pipe dream, solar with batteries, those batteries are not likely to be environmentally friendly either.

Last edited by Ipv6Ready (2016-09-30 20:45:18)


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#36 2016-09-30 20:51:02

SpacePete
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Ipv6Ready wrote:

..., but in an area that is naturally radioactive (uranium ore) or where we already nuked the area, what clean up cost would there be?

It's not like I'm advocating building it in upper Adelaide. And I'm all for distributed electricity, but why eliminate technology that is proven and when we have the most perfect areas to build it.

Even if you build a big nuke plant in a radioactive wasteland (and who is going to construct it and run it if the area is radioactive?), you still need an extensive distribution grid to supply a sufficient number of paying customers to justify the cost. I'd hope the plan would be for it to be profitable against alternative technologies and competitors on an equal playing field.


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#37 2016-09-30 20:54:50

Ipv6Ready
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

We have plenty of people willing to mine it.


WTB 4 to 6 grams of pure gold. Don't care if it is coin, bar or granules. Near spot, suits anyone who has been tempted to open a certicard or just have some granules to make a ring

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#38 2016-09-30 20:57:58

SpacePete
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

It might make for a good work-for-the-dole project.


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#39 2016-09-30 22:16:35

Clawhammer
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

They could set up a plant near Tamworth NSW... the local groundwater has uranium in it...

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-0 … fmredir=sm


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#40 2016-10-02 19:10:43

yennus
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

CtefK_CUEAAEL4t.jpg
Source:https://twitter.com/DavidLeyonhjelm

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#41 2016-10-02 22:27:45

Big A.D.
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Why is this even a thing?

The engineers said right from the start the blackout had nothing to do with the high level of wind turbines in S.A.'s energy mix.

Even the anti-renewables politicians (well, the moderately intelligent ones) have grudgingly accepted it wasn't the wind turbines and have now shifted to "we need to make the grid infrastructure more reliable".

No s**t.

There's only two links to the Eastern states' grid and a centralized network design that concentrates the potential points of failure.


I am the Leafy Sea Dragon.

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#42 2016-10-02 23:06:39

Currawong
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

ElectraNet net were warned that the towers built decades ago to outdated standards had imsufficient footings and would not stand up to winds the likes of which SA saw.
Seriously, I've put bigger footings on sheds I've built than were on those towers. So lax maintenance was the cause.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/na … 6fcb6e1999

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#43 2016-10-02 23:25:49

SilverSurfer77
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Currawong wrote:

ElectraNet net were warned that the towers built decades ago to outdated standards had imsufficient footings and would not stand up to winds the likes of which SA saw.
Seriously, I've put bigger footings on sheds I've built than were on those towers. So lax maintenance was the cause.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/na … 6fcb6e1999

I can't open your link but the photos I have seen the towers were folded over about a third of the way up which tells me that it wasn't the footings but structural flaw.


Silver!!!!! Get it while you can

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#44 2016-10-02 23:27:52

Ipv6Ready
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

The blackout occurred becuase SA renewable energy policy drove out baseload generators.

If the coal baseload generators was operating, Arium Whyalla steelworks and BHP would still be operating, where as they are shut down.

I think this could be a nail in the coffin for Whyalla SA unless Governement turns it into another SA work for dole scheme.

Last edited by Ipv6Ready (2016-10-02 23:28:10)


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#45 2016-10-02 23:35:11

Big A.D.
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Ipv6Ready wrote:

The blackout occurred becuase SA renewable energy policy drove out baseload generators.

No, it didn't.

How many energy industry people need to say this before it sinks in?

If the coal baseload generators was operating, Arium Whyalla steelworks and BHP would still be operating, where as they are shut down.

It doesn't matter if you've got a coal fired power station at the end of the cable or a cluster of wind turbines. If the cable gets cut in the middle, you lose power at the other end.


I am the Leafy Sea Dragon.

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#46 2016-10-02 23:50:17

SpacePete
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Big A.D. wrote:
Ipv6Ready wrote:

The blackout occurred becuase SA renewable energy policy drove out baseload generators.

No, it didn't.

How many energy industry people need to say this before it sinks in?

If the coal baseload generators was operating, Arium Whyalla steelworks and BHP would still be operating, where as they are shut down.

It doesn't matter if you've got a coal fired power station at the end of the cable or a cluster of wind turbines. If the cable gets cut in the middle, you lose power at the other end.

The response has been bizarre to say the least. More than 20 towers were knocked down yet somehow the issue was renewables. Towers transmit electricy, not generate it.

Base load is an entirely different debate. The question people should be asking is why the hell did so many towers come down at all when towers in other states subject to far worse conditions survived ok? WTF is wrong with the manufacture or installation of those towers? You can bet there's someone out there very relieved that the focus is on renewables rather than the towers.

...

Why did so many of South Australia's electricity transmission towers collapse?

Depending on where you were in the state, the wind speeds in the South Australian storms averaged 50kph to 65kph with gusts of up to 90kph to 115kph.

When Cyclone Yasi hit far north Queensland in early 2011 it was category 5 cyclone with wind gusts up to 285kph.

Cyclone Yasi was one of the most powerful cyclones ever recorded in Queensland. It took out street electricity poles and wires, damaged substations and blacked out 180,000 homes between Cairns and Townsville.

But, despite having 2 to 3 times stronger winds than the South Australian storms, Cyclone Yasi's winds caused just 2 high voltage transmission towers to collapse.

Land slippage and erosion from cyclone related rain and flooding toppled 1 tower and undermined another 2 in southern Queensland, but Yasi's super high winds only knocked down 2 towers in far north Queensland.

In April of 2015 severe storms in NSW blacked out 200,000 premises between Sydney and Newcastle and in the Hunter Valley.

Winds gusting up to 135kph up rooted trees, knocked down local street power lines and damaged electricity circuits and infrastructure, but the NSW high voltage transmission towers stood their ground.

More: https:[email protected]/why-did-so … .6ztqbzfj5


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#47 2016-10-02 23:56:25

Ipv6Ready
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Please google and look at where the coal power generators are located, it is not next to wind turnbine farms.

If they were running, there would have been enough baseload.

I concede if SA never had the coal generators yes correct, but if the coal was in operation than no.

Adelaide at 3.40 was using 1550 mWh
700 mWh coal was turned off becuase they were driven out of the market by expensive wind
650 mWh was coming from interconnect
650 mWh was coming from wind
300 mWh was other gas etc.

At 3.45 900 mWh wind 650 mWh shut down.

Now why is SA regularly paying $10,000 mWh -> is it by coincidence when they is too much wind or too little wind?
How many times have parts of SA lost power

I look at my companies power bills as an industrial electricity supply user for 2000 plus racks in my DC and have another 500 racks in other DC in SA.

SA is a basket case, Do you also know how many time electranet have asked industrial users to turn on redundant generators to reduce load on the system?


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#48 2016-10-02 23:59:17

SpacePete
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

SilverSurfer77 wrote:
Currawong wrote:

ElectraNet net were warned that the towers built decades ago to outdated standards had imsufficient footings and would not stand up to winds the likes of which SA saw.
Seriously, I've put bigger footings on sheds I've built than were on those towers. So lax maintenance was the cause.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/na … 6fcb6e1999

I can't open your link but the photos I have seen the towers were folded over about a third of the way up which tells me that it wasn't the footings but structural flaw.

49UzLRM.jpg


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#49 2016-10-03 00:00:00

Ipv6Ready
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Don't get side tracked by 20 towers, they were all local one area.

Even wind power is distributed 20 towers falling down didn't turn off all the wind turbines.

Wind power drove coal out in of the market, with coal there would have been enough base load.


WTB 4 to 6 grams of pure gold. Don't care if it is coin, bar or granules. Near spot, suits anyone who has been tempted to open a certicard or just have some granules to make a ring

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#50 2016-10-03 00:01:07

Clawhammer
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Re: All South Australia without Electricity!!!!!

Currawong wrote:

ElectraNet net were warned that the towers built decades ago to outdated standards had imsufficient footings and would not stand up to winds the likes of which SA saw.
Seriously, I've put bigger footings on sheds I've built than were on those towers. So lax maintenance was the cause.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/na … 6fcb6e1999

Yup, these are nowhere near good enough.
Whom ever put these in who thought they would never get caught will soon find out why you shouldn't cut corners...


179_images-16.jpg


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