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#1 2016-08-17 23:07:47

GRETZKY427
Silver Stacker
From: Australia/Canada
Registered: 2014-11-21
Posts: 1,081
Trades :   65 

Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere ???

I have heard of the stories and have friends that have put money into there super on a reg basis only to walk away with JS after it all as either they we getting on average a shit return or on some case a negative return...

Or put my money in saving for an investment property, shares, bonds and PMs ???

What about investing in an investment property with my super, as I would have atleast 30yrs to go before I could touch my super anyways...

Cheers, HAPPY STACKING :-)

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#2 2016-08-17 23:20:00

mmm....shiney!
Silver Stacker
From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 15,952
Trades :   102 
Website

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

Do you consider the $ you earn today to be more valuable to you now or in your retirement?


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#3 2016-08-17 23:26:44

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

GRETZKY427 wrote:

Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere ???

Totally circumstance dependent.
In any case I'd get a SMSF, at least then you are in control of your super and you have options. You can even use all your super money to buy metal if you want.

What about investing in an investment property with my super, as I would have atleast 30yrs to go before I could touch my super anyways...

With a SMSF and enough cash, it's super easy (pun intended). If you have to borrow through your SMSF then it gets a bit more complicated (another company structure must be set up).
If you ever have your own company then you can buy commercial property in your SMSF and then rent it to your company. (Commercial realestate is popular in SMSF's due to the low entry price where you can often pay cash)

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#4 2016-08-18 01:39:36

BuggedOut
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From: New South Wales
Registered: 2015-07-21
Posts: 1,777
Trades :   37 

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

Depends on your situation, but for me I'd put it elsewhere.  Putting extra money into super is the last thing I want to do.

A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

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#5 2016-08-18 01:52:11

Clawhammer
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From: Gone Fishin'
Registered: 2010-02-26
Posts: 9,506
Trades :   

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

If you're in Australia...PUT IT ELSEWHERE!!!!

Better you spend it than some Govt. bureacrat pissing it up against the wall.

Last edited by Clawhammer (2016-08-18 01:52:24)


Specialisation is for insects

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#6 2016-08-18 02:23:17

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

Clawhammer wrote:

Better you spend it than some Govt. bureacrat pissing it up against the wall.

And if you have a SMSF, how is "some Govt. bureacrat pissing it up against the wall" exactly?
Or even without a SMSF, how is the government getting its hands on your super money?

"The governments going to take your super money" panic crowd seem to be right up there with "The governments going to take your gold" crowd roll

But yeah, unless you have a tax strategy plan and are closer to retirement, I would be putting extra money into super now and waiting for the payout in 30+ years. That's way too long.
If I was 10 years out from retirement then yeah I'd be going big time into super, it can be very tax advantageous.

Last edited by SilverDJ (2016-08-18 02:28:56)

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#7 2016-08-18 02:33:50

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

mmm....shiney! wrote:

Do you consider the $ you earn today to be more valuable to you now or in your retirement?

That's the thing.
Let's say you are in the 37% tax bracket. You can either pay 37% tax on every $ over $80k, or put it into super and pay only 15% on the same money. Big difference. There are also tax advantages to putting property into your SMSF for retirement.
But unless you buy metal or commercial property in your SMSF, you don't get to physically play with it until you retire sad

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#8 2016-08-18 02:53:15

Abossy
Silver Stacker
From: Perth, WA
Registered: 2012-06-19
Posts: 374
Trades :   63 

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

I wouldn't put it into super unless I had my own SMSF (which I do).

Even then I would try and pay down any existing personal debt first.

It's all well and good to argue the favourable tax concessions with super, but they keep fiddling with it and I have my own doubts on accessibility in future years. There was some talk about stopping lump sum payouts all together and forcing you to draw down on it as an annuity.

With these crooks in power you can't be sure.

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#9 2016-08-18 05:59:10

willrocks
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From: Yesterday
Registered: 2012-05-10
Posts: 7,629
Trades :   29 

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

The government are working on new and innovative ways to steal super. I'm not counting on ever seeing a cent of it. It's just another tax.


"You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

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#10 2016-08-18 06:28:10

BuggedOut
Member
From: New South Wales
Registered: 2015-07-21
Posts: 1,777
Trades :   37 

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

willrocks wrote:

The government are working on new and innovative ways to steal super. I'm not counting on ever seeing a cent of it. It's just another tax.

Agreed.

We are one financial crisis and one socialist government away from losing control of our super IMHO.

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#11 2016-08-18 06:37:40

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

willrocks wrote:

The government are working on new and innovative ways to steal super. I'm not counting on ever seeing a cent of it. It's just another tax.

Got the slightest bit of evidence for that?
Do you seriously think the entire working population would let the government just take their super? Seriously?
It would be political suicide to even try it.

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#12 2016-08-18 06:50:45

BuggedOut
Member
From: New South Wales
Registered: 2015-07-21
Posts: 1,777
Trades :   37 

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

SilverDJ wrote:
willrocks wrote:

The government are working on new and innovative ways to steal super. I'm not counting on ever seeing a cent of it. It's just another tax.

Got the slightest bit of evidence for that?
Do you seriously think the entire working population would let the government just take their super? Seriously?
It would be political suicide to even try it.

Bill Shorten - Superannuation is our sovereign wealth fund

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa … 6049423098

Ok, so he is not part of the government right now, but how long until he is?

When we have a crisis and people are screaming about jobs its a pretty easy sell for a socialist government to force superannuation funds into investment choices that the government is making - all in the name of "stimulating the economy and creating jobs" of course!!

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#13 2016-08-18 06:51:58

mmm....shiney!
Silver Stacker
From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 15,952
Trades :   102 
Website

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

SilverDJ wrote:
willrocks wrote:

The government are working on new and innovative ways to steal super. I'm not counting on ever seeing a cent of it. It's just another tax.

Got the slightest bit of evidence for that?

Reducing the tax benefits/contributions of the wealthiest?


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#14 2016-08-18 06:52:03

Ipv6Ready
Silver Stacker
From: North Sydney
Registered: 2016-01-08
Posts: 2,218
Trades :   39 

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

SilverDJ wrote:
willrocks wrote:

The government are working on new and innovative ways to steal super. I'm not counting on ever seeing a cent of it. It's just another tax.

Got the slightest bit of evidence for that?
Do you seriously think the entire working population would let the government just take their super? Seriously?
It would be political suicide to even try it.

also no superannuation changes been applied retrospectively to my knowledge.

So even if government changes the tax from 15% to 25% it's only for new money


WTB 4 to 6 grams of pure gold. Don't care if it is coin, bar or granules. Near spot, suits anyone who has been tempted to open a certicard or just have some granules to make a ring

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#15 2016-08-18 06:55:12

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

BuggedOut wrote:

When we have a crisis and people are screaming about jobs its a pretty easy sell for a socialist government to force superannuation funds into investment choices that the government is making - all in the name of "stimulating the economy and creating jobs" of course!!

That's not stealing the money though. And good luck making SMSF do that.
It would also be quite politically suicidal, people would still have choice over how to invest their super, and the existing super fund mangers would remain (they won't give up their power). They would rely on the fact that the majority don't bother to chose what and how their super is invested in. Nothing in all this sovereign wealth fund bluster mentions taking investment choice away from people.
Talk is one thing, but actually trying to get legislation passed that "steals" or compulsorily re-appropriates individual money's in their super funds is another thing entirely. You won't win an election with it, on the contrary it will lose you an election.

Last edited by SilverDJ (2016-08-18 07:07:36)

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#16 2016-08-18 07:10:50

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

willrocks wrote:

I'm not counting on ever seeing a cent of it.

Then you are a fool.
Set up a SMSF and buy gold bars and stack them in your basement, repeat until retirement. Entirely legal.
If they come knocking, "sorry, it was a boating accident officer, I've lost all my super, I feel like a fool! *cry for effect*"

Last edited by SilverDJ (2016-08-18 07:11:46)

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#17 2016-08-18 07:17:13

BuggedOut
Member
From: New South Wales
Registered: 2015-07-21
Posts: 1,777
Trades :   37 

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

SilverDJ wrote:

That's not stealing the money though.

If there's nothing left of it when I hit retirement age then I would consider it stolen.  You could use other words to describe it but it'd just be semantics to me.

Maybe it would be political suicide, but I would have thought that endorsing the TPP would have been political suicide but it's not even being debated.  Never underestimate the potential for knee-jerk reaction of a government under pressure in a crisis situation.

Politicians can make promises about not changing superannuation come election time.....but do those promises get kept?  No.  What are you gonna do?  Vote for the other guy? LOL lol

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#18 2016-08-18 08:34:39

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

BuggedOut wrote:
SilverDJ wrote:

That's not stealing the money though.

If there's nothing left of it when I hit retirement age then I would consider it stolen.  You could use other words to describe it but it'd just be semantics to me.

You have complete control over your super and how it is invested. There is zero evidence that anyone is proposing otherwise.

Maybe it would be political suicide, but I would have thought that endorsing the TPP would have been political suicide but it's not even being debated.

Terrible analogy. Super is people's actual money, even if most don't care too much about it, they know it is their money, and most know how much they have. Even Joe Average can understand the concept.
TPP is just a policy that Joe Average couldn't possibly understand the impact of, let alone an impact on their money which is in no way direct.

Politicians can make promises about not changing superannuation come election time.....but do those promises get kept?  No.  What are you gonna do?  Vote for the other guy? LOL lol

Once again, show the evidence that any politician has proposed changes to super that take control and decision of the investment away from the individual.
Anything else is just your wild fear-mongering fantasy.

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#19 2016-08-18 08:50:44

BuggedOut
Member
From: New South Wales
Registered: 2015-07-21
Posts: 1,777
Trades :   37 

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

I haven't claimed that there is any "evidence" of any "proposal".  I'm just saying I wouldn't put it past them to try and I fully expect that it will happen down the road.

You can call it "wild fear-mongering fantasy" if you want.  I don't care.

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#20 2016-08-18 17:21:42

Abossy
Silver Stacker
From: Perth, WA
Registered: 2012-06-19
Posts: 374
Trades :   63 

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

SilverDJ wrote:
BuggedOut wrote:
SilverDJ wrote:

That's not stealing the money though.

If there's nothing left of it when I hit retirement age then I would consider it stolen.  You could use other words to describe it but it'd just be semantics to me.

You have complete control over your super and how it is invested. There is zero evidence that anyone is proposing otherwise.

Maybe it would be political suicide, but I would have thought that endorsing the TPP would have been political suicide but it's not even being debated.

Terrible analogy. Super is people's actual money, even if most don't care too much about it, they know it is their money, and most know how much they have. Even Joe Average can understand the concept.
TPP is just a policy that Joe Average couldn't possibly understand the impact of, let alone an impact on their money which is in no way direct.

Politicians can make promises about not changing superannuation come election time.....but do those promises get kept?  No.  What are you gonna do?  Vote for the other guy? LOL lol

Once again, show the evidence that any politician has proposed changes to super that take control and decision of the investment away from the individual.
Anything else is just your wild fear-mongering fantasy.

There doesn't always need to be hard evidence, just look at the trend. I think it's naive to think your super is totally safe. Do you even have an SMSF? Look at the auditing requirements and ato levy fee increases. I think it's clear that the government wants to try and control this pool of money as much as possible. It's fking trillions of dollars we are talking about here.

Also who says they need to confiscate it at all? Perhaps in the future they do something like I was saying before where they stop lump sums. Maybe the confiscation comes through a forced investment into government bonds or a bailout fund.

At the end of the day the only people who have access to their super right now are those of preservation age. All the rest of us will just have to wait. Bottom line is I don't trust the government to keep me or my super safe. The SMSF is my way of keeping what control I can and like you said earlier if that day ever comes the bullion held might have to disappear.

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#21 2016-08-18 18:04:37

SteveS
Member
From: Brisbane
Registered: 2016-08-06
Posts: 955
Trades :   

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

Abossy wrote:

.......Bottom line is I don't trust the government to keep me or my super safe. The SMSF is my way of keeping what control I can and like you said earlier if that day ever comes the bullion held might have to disappear.

+1

Human nature dictates that the Australian Government WILL raid our super in some way. The current government has foreshadowed this by its recent actions. Now that the taboo of 'sacred super' has been busted, I can guarantee that the huge pile of money sitting in super will be too much of a temptation for future governments who need to make election promises when there is no money to be found elsewhere. Once started, who knows where that will lead. Yay, free money!

Just like Pooh bear when he sees Rabbit's honey jar and says, "I'll just have a small portion......"

Last edited by SteveS (2016-08-18 18:08:25)


I intend to live forever. So far, so good.

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#22 2016-08-18 18:25:24

Ouch
Member
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: 2010-11-16
Posts: 1,098
Trades :   29 

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

SteveS wrote:

+1

Human nature dictates that the Australian Government WILL raid our super in some way. The current government has foreshadowed this by its recent actions. Now that the taboo of 'sacred super' has been busted, I can guarantee that the huge pile of money sitting in super will be too much of a temptation for future governments who need to make election promises when there is no money to be found elsewhere. Once started, who knows where that will lead. Yay, free money!

Just like Pooh bear when he sees Rabbit's honey jar and says, "I'll just have a small portion......"

Can't the Government just print more money if it needs more money? And if they raid our super and leave us with nothing that'll just mean they would need to pay us a pension?

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#23 2016-08-18 18:32:53

SteveS
Member
From: Brisbane
Registered: 2016-08-06
Posts: 955
Trades :   

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

Ouch wrote:

......Can't the Government just print more money if it needs more money? And if they raid our super and leave us with nothing that'll just mean they would need to pay us a pension?

Chances are, your private super would, if left untouched, pay you more than the basic government pension. They will take more than they give.

Besides, desperate and greedy politicians will happily spend your money now, and then leave future politicians to worry about giving it (some) back.

Last edited by SteveS (2016-08-18 18:33:43)


I intend to live forever. So far, so good.

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#24 2016-08-18 19:08:37

Abossy
Silver Stacker
From: Perth, WA
Registered: 2012-06-19
Posts: 374
Trades :   63 

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

Ouch wrote:
SteveS wrote:

+1

Human nature dictates that the Australian Government WILL raid our super in some way. The current government has foreshadowed this by its recent actions. Now that the taboo of 'sacred super' has been busted, I can guarantee that the huge pile of money sitting in super will be too much of a temptation for future governments who need to make election promises when there is no money to be found elsewhere. Once started, who knows where that will lead. Yay, free money!

Just like Pooh bear when he sees Rabbit's honey jar and says, "I'll just have a small portion......"

Can't the Government just print more money if it needs more money? And if they raid our super and leave us with nothing that'll just mean they would need to pay us a pension?

I don't know for certain, but I think Australia is unique in it's style of forced super - that is, you CANT access it until preservation age. I know for a fact in the US you can withdraw your 401K with a massive tax hit.

So from the government's point of view, they basically have trillions of $$ under their legislative control which doesn't need to be accessed by the owners for at least the next decade or two - depending on the proportions of that wealth held by the older folk. So are you honestly going to try and convince me that in some sort of future debt crisis (which I believe is inevitable), they are not going to be tempted to tap some of that wealth?

They wouldn't be stupid enough to take the whole lot - and they can't, most of it wouldn't be liquid - and that would cause it's own massive problems - I'm thinking something more like mandatory investment into some sort of government instrument or fund. I'm more convinced however that they will stop the lump sum payouts. I.e. you have to take it as an annual payout. There was serious talk about this by some muppet a few months ago.

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#25 2016-08-18 19:25:09

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: Contribute to my super or put money elsewhere

Abossy wrote:

There doesn't always need to be hard evidence, just look at the trend. I think it's naive to think your super is totally safe. Do you even have an SMSF?

Yes I do and have talked about it a lot on here.

Look at the auditing requirements and ato levy fee increases. I think it's clear that the government wants to try and control this pool of money as much as possible. It's fking trillions of dollars we are talking about here.

Yeah, and there would be just as much as saving accounts etc, yet no one is screaming that crying government is going to come and take that.
Sure, they can eat away at it with taxes etc, and the same thing might be done to super, but once again, but it's limited, they aren't going to magically take it all, it's political suicide to touch people's super and savings.

At the end of the day the only people who have access to their super right now are those of preservation age. All the rest of us will just have to wait. Bottom line is I don't trust the government to keep me or my super safe. The SMSF is my way of keeping what control I can and like you said earlier if that day ever comes the bullion held might have to disappear.

That's the thing, a lot of people seem to be bitching and moaning about super, that the government will take it, it's dead money, it won't be there when they retire etc. Yet it is 100% within your control, just get a SMSF and buy something with it, either a (commercial) property, or PM's. Something physical you have which they can never take away.

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