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#1 2016-07-11 17:46:04

Old Codger
Silver Stacker
Registered: 2011-05-13
Posts: 5,128

SMSFs

On behalf of daughter, can she start a SMSF that is IN ADDITION to her normal work (COLES) superannuation account.

Two, maybe three Kgs of PAMPs or Perth bars.

.....and how much does it cost to set one up?

OC


"The Australian Labor Party is a democratic socialist party and has the objective of the democratic socialisation of industry, production, distribution and exchange, to the extent necessary to eliminate exploitation and other anti-social features in these fields."   -  ALP Constitution.

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#2 2016-07-11 18:12:52

REDBACK
Silver Stacker
From: Trump supporters matter
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 3,313

Re: SMSFs

Search the archives OC
Lots of info there re your question
RB


"Buy now Cry later!!"

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#3 2016-07-11 18:33:20

raven
Silver Stacker
From: Victoria
Registered: 2014-04-27
Posts: 1,215

Re: SMSFs

yes she can, just need to set her up as the trustee through an ABN
try this guy !

Ivan Filipovic - Director, Call us on 1300 790 110
Redwood Advisory - SMSF Specialists  - [email protected]
www.redwoodadvisory.com.au

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#4 2016-07-11 18:34:45

raven
Silver Stacker
From: Victoria
Registered: 2014-04-27
Posts: 1,215

Re: SMSFs

^^^^^^^
he's also a forum member, member !
smile

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#5 2016-07-11 20:48:56

Elemental
Silver Stacker
From: WA
Registered: 2011-05-21
Posts: 1,070
Trades :   66 

Re: SMSFs

She definitely can but having multiple super accounts means you are paying duplicate admin and fees on those multiple accounts.

A few Kgs of silver will not be enough to justify IMO (a few kegs of gold would be a different). She would also need to contribute cash to cover admin and supervisory levies every year.


If you want to be a Millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline - Richard Branson

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#6 2016-07-11 21:37:02

Agnostic
Silver Stacker
Registered: 2013-06-13
Posts: 385
Trades :   24 

Re: SMSFs

Start up costs maybe $1000
Ongoing costs $1000 - $3000 pa

Definitely not worthwhile for a few silver bars.

Ballpark figure wait until $150k total assets with ongoing contributions of $20k plus per year.

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#7 2016-07-11 22:13:58

Jislizard
Silver Stacker
From: Australia
Registered: 2011-04-07
Posts: 7,472
Trades :   57 

Re: SMSFs

As far as I can see it...

Benefits of having Precious Metals in a SMSF: You can buy them cheaper by salary sacrificing your wages and buying silver from the fund, you get more silver because instead of paying tax at your normal rate you pay tax at 15% I think.

Drawbacks: Can't access that money until you retire, it isn't really yours.
You have to pay fees, I use esuperfund and it is only $700 per annum and $150 audit fees.
At some stage they might demand that you keep the metals in a secure storage facility with insurance, more expense.
If you don't already you may soon have to keep personal and SMSF metals separate, two safes?
You might not be able to buy the type of silver you like due to the interpretation of the laws. Restricting what you can buy, even if you can get some cheaper silver.
Some low paid government drone or contractor now knows that you have a financial interest in precious metals.
You might never get to see your SMSF if they decide they aren't going to let you take it all out in one go when you retire.
You have to keep receipts for everything.

All in all, not really worth it.

I have a SMSF with eSuperfund and I have some unalloacted precious metals held with Goldstackers. I also have my industry superfund which I can't get out of. I salary sacrifice into my industry super, the employer increases their contribution and then once a year I roll it all over into my SMSF.

It is a bit more paperwork but in my situation it suits me.


Now stacking: World Junk Silver Coins.
Swap your older, worn, dirty fractional silver coins for fiat, .999 rounds or legal tender. 
Individual coins, mixed lots or bulk. 
Not looking for Australian, bent, holed or damaged coins, thanks!

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#8 2016-07-11 22:56:00

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: SMSFs

Old Codger wrote:

.....and how much does it cost to set one up?

Free for the first year, then $799 a year:
https://www.esuperfund.com.au/fees/special-free-offer

Last edited by SilverDJ (2016-07-11 22:56:24)

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#9 2016-07-11 23:00:11

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: SMSFs

Jislizard wrote:

At some stage they might demand that you keep the metals in a secure storage facility with insurance, more expense.

"They" can't demand anything. It is legal to keep the metal yourself and not have it insured, you (as the SMSF director) just have to note the reason why you did it.
Can they change the SMSF laws in the future?, yes.

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#10 2016-07-11 23:00:50

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: SMSFs

Agnostic wrote:

Start up costs maybe $1000
Ongoing costs $1000 - $3000 pa

You are being ripped off if you are paying that amount.

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#11 2016-07-11 23:01:59

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: SMSFs

Old Codger wrote:

Two, maybe three Kgs of PAMPs or Perth bars.

Not worth it just for that. You'd want 10-20 times that amount that start making it worthwhile.

Last edited by SilverDJ (2016-07-11 23:02:09)

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#12 2016-07-11 23:05:21

Old Codger
Silver Stacker
Registered: 2011-05-13
Posts: 5,128

Re: SMSFs

No, I was talking Gold!

A start figure of about $125,000.

I presume she would store the Gold in our safe custody vault box.

OC


"The Australian Labor Party is a democratic socialist party and has the objective of the democratic socialisation of industry, production, distribution and exchange, to the extent necessary to eliminate exploitation and other anti-social features in these fields."   -  ALP Constitution.

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#13 2016-07-12 00:00:47

Agnostic
Silver Stacker
Registered: 2013-06-13
Posts: 385
Trades :   24 

Re: SMSFs

Table 2: SMSFs – 2014 average operating expense ratio for different account balances

Fund size                            Average operating expense ratio (%)*    Average operating expense ($)

$1-$50,000                         12.05%                                                Up to $6,025
$50,001- $100,000              5.99%                                                  $2,995 to $5,990
$100,001 – $200,000           4.86%                                                  $4,860 to $9,720
$200,001 -$500,000             2.54%                                                 $5,080 to $12,700
$500,001 – $1 million           1.35%                                                 $6,750 to $13,500
$1,000,001 – $2 million        0.91%                                                 $9,100 to $18,200
$2,000,001 and higher          0.63%                                                 $12,600 and higher

http://www.superguide.com.au/smsfs/how- … _fund_cost

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#14 2016-07-12 00:13:31

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: SMSFs

Old Codger wrote:

No, I was talking Gold!
A start figure of about $125,000.
I presume she would store the Gold in our safe custody vault box.

Now you're talking!
As someone else mentioned though, income needs to continue to come in to pay for the fees. Gold doesn't produce any income or dividends.

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#15 2016-07-12 00:15:22

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: SMSFs

Agnostic wrote:

Table 2: SMSFs – 2014 average operating expense ratio for different account balances
Fund size                            Average operating expense ratio (%)*    Average operating expense ($)
$1-$50,000                         12.05%                                                Up to $6,025
$50,001- $100,000              5.99%                                                  $2,995 to $5,990
$100,001 – $200,000           4.86%                                                  $4,860 to $9,720
$200,001 -$500,000             2.54%                                                 $5,080 to $12,700
$500,001 – $1 million           1.35%                                                 $6,750 to $13,500
$1,000,001 – $2 million        0.91%                                                 $9,100 to $18,200
$2,000,001 and higher          0.63%                                                 $12,600 and higher
http://www.superguide.com.au/smsfs/how- … _fund_cost

Those figures are ridiculous.
Esuperfund only costs $799 a year to manage the thing. 0.8% on $100k

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#16 2016-07-12 00:36:14

Old Codger
Silver Stacker
Registered: 2011-05-13
Posts: 5,128

Re: SMSFs

I am shocked at the fees!

Daughter buys about $125,000 of gold bars, stores them for years and never touches them,  and it costs a bucket!

???

OC


"The Australian Labor Party is a democratic socialist party and has the objective of the democratic socialisation of industry, production, distribution and exchange, to the extent necessary to eliminate exploitation and other anti-social features in these fields."   -  ALP Constitution.

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#17 2016-07-12 00:57:51

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: SMSFs

Old Codger wrote:

I am shocked at the fees!

Why?
A SMSF is a registered company that must have it's tax returns filled, bookwork done etc. An accountant to do that costs money. Accountants don't work for $30 an hour.
You could do it yourself if you know how to do it.
My Pty Ltd business costs me about $4k in accounting fees a year to manage. So $800 for a SMSF is pretty cheap by comparison.

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#18 2016-07-12 01:16:49

Old Codger
Silver Stacker
Registered: 2011-05-13
Posts: 5,128

Re: SMSFs

Agree, but the 'company' has no trading transactions from year to year.

It just sits there with its only asset in a bloody great vault!

OC


"The Australian Labor Party is a democratic socialist party and has the objective of the democratic socialisation of industry, production, distribution and exchange, to the extent necessary to eliminate exploitation and other anti-social features in these fields."   -  ALP Constitution.

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#19 2016-07-13 09:46:24

ShinyStuff
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2011-04-29
Posts: 608
Trades :   

Re: SMSFs

Hi OC,

Costs are "high" in the sense that you know where the money actually goes!  There are "high" fees in communal funds too, but they are absorbed and you don't seem to feel it.  They do tend to be lower though.

For me, it is the freedom that you are in control of the money, which is something you need to decide is worth it for you.  I don't like the idea that one day, by the stroke of a pen, your money locked up in an industry fund is syphoned away to a government funded infrastructure project.  I also believe that one day they will stop new SMSF from starting.  I am not sure of the day, but I want to know that I am not "too late" and I have done my best to make money for my retirement.  Anyway, I am happy to never "retire" as I want to work part-time till I die.  It is the best way to stay healthy and active and to keep "young and hip" as you are constantly keeping up with the younger generations.

Shiny

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#20 2016-07-13 09:55:47

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: SMSFs

Old Codger wrote:

Agree, but the 'company' has no trading transactions from year to year.
It just sits there with its only asset in a bloody great vault!

Ok, if it's that simple then it should be easy to do your own return and SMSF paperwork compliance yourself, right?

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#21 2016-07-13 10:02:17

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: SMSFs

ShinyStuff wrote:

For me, it is the freedom that you are in control of the money

That's why I did it, and it feels good.
But one thing I didn't anticipate is that one day a good commercial realestate opportunity came my way and I realised I was able to instantly snap it up with cash from my SMSF and then rent it out to my business (it's legal for Pty's)
I literally wrote a cheque and it was mine, no mess, no fuss, nothing out of my or my businesses pocket as I considered my super effectively "dead" play money anyway.

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