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  • » Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

#1 2016-05-17 01:43:05

TheEnd
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Registered: 2011-10-06
Posts: 2,604
Trades :   

Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

I presently have 80k worth of super and have been wondering lately if I should start self managing it into precious metals before there is a major financial crash and the government lose it all.

Have been reading other threads about SMSF and its very complicating but I am determined to not lose all my savings so I will consider it seriously if i really need to.

What does everyone else think?

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#2 2016-05-17 02:00:43

BuggedOut
Member
From: New South Wales
Registered: 2015-07-21
Posts: 1,797
Trades :   39 

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

For me, I wanted my super to be a decent size before I want to bother with the costs and management of a SMSF (it needs to be worth it!).  I went with ING Living Super because I could invest directly into gold shares and ETFs through their platform, though in a full blown collapse I'd expect the counter party risk would be realized and ING would not be a safe place to be.

Personally I am watching 2 things closely.  Both are elections.  In Australia Bill Shorten has previously referred to Australians super funds as a future wealth fund (or similar) and if he gets in I'd expect some bad super policy to be on the way and you want to be IN a SMSF before that door gets closed.  The other is the US election.  If Trump gets in it might trigger a crash.  So if either of these risks looks likely I may move to SMSF early, but for now I am comfortable where I am....and just watching things closely.....

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#3 2016-05-17 02:36:11

TheEnd
Member
Registered: 2011-10-06
Posts: 2,604
Trades :   

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

Ye i'm with Australian Super and its been appreciating about 10k per year the last few years so i'm pretty happy about what i presently have.

Cant stand the thought of losing it all.

Would really love to invest the whole lot into pm's but i think like you i think i really need to wait until both of the elections are over and done with?

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#4 2016-05-17 02:48:27

GoldenEye
Silver Stacker
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2014-12-30
Posts: 592
Trades :   33 

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

Starting your own SMSF is not difficult, but you probably need $300K to make it worthwhile. From memory I think the basic steps are:
- Tell your accountant you want a SMSF and he will organise an off the shelf trust deed.
- Use the trust deed to set up a bank account.
- Transfer all funds from your old super fund to your new one.
- Also use the trust deed to set up any other accounts, such as Perth Mint, Guardian Vaults, Etrade, etc.
- Start trading.

There'll also be some other minor SMSF regulatory steps, but your accountant should be able to help with that.

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#5 2016-05-17 03:19:36

TheEnd
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Registered: 2011-10-06
Posts: 2,604
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Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

300K!!!

Bloody hell i'm along way off that figure.

Why would'nt it be worth while doing with only 80K???

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#6 2016-05-17 03:22:26

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

TheEnd wrote:

I presently have 80k worth of super and have been wondering lately if I should start self managing it into precious metals before there is a major financial crash and the government lose it all.
Have been reading other threads about SMSF and its very complicating but I am determined to not lose all my savings so I will consider it seriously if i really need to.
What does everyone else think?

Its super easy to do.
www.esuperfund.com.au
They send you pre-filled forms, you sign them, and bingo a few weeks later you have a SMSF ABN, bank accoutn, metal trading account, share trading account etc.
Yearly compliance uses an easy to use online form you fill out. An hours work a year unless you do something fancy like buy property.

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#7 2016-05-17 03:24:07

mmm....shiney!
Silver Stacker
From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 16,000
Trades :   102 
Website

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

@ The End, yes. Take responsibility.


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#8 2016-05-17 03:28:49

Shaddam IV
Silver Stacker
From: House Corrino
Registered: 2010-03-22
Posts: 6,278

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

With 80K you could possibly buy a strata title parking space in the CBD if you are lucky to find a cheaper one and rent it out or you could buy a large strata title storage unit in a complex with a metal mezzanine that should make you an 8 to 9% return.

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#9 2016-05-17 03:38:22

REDBACK
Silver Stacker
From: Trump supporters matter
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 3,314

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

You can start your Super with 50k no probs at all.
Annual audit costs if investing in low transactions per annum PM's will be around $500
Accountant fees for a Super with low '# PM transactions'  can be had for around $600

From the cleardocs website this below

SMSF set up + register Corporate Trustee
Set up your SMSF and the coporate trustee in one step.
$738.00
($275.00 Cleardocs fee inc. GST and $463.00 ASIC fee)

Setting up your own SMSF is not hard it just takes a bit of time and patience.
Search past threads there's a lot of good info there.

REDBACK


"Buy now Cry later!!"

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#10 2016-05-17 03:58:51

smk762
Silver Stacker
From: Westralia
Registered: 2014-09-04
Posts: 1,398
Trades :   15 

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

It's much more satisfying losing it yourself.


Note: No view / opinion I express is to be construed in any way as representative of entities which I may be associated with, including but not limited to employers, clubs, or charitable organisations. All commentary is made as a private citizen, regardless of the method of creative expression, and in accordance with personal integrity and my perception of the public interest. This disclaimer is to be applied perpetually and retroactively.Hi ASIO roll

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#11 2016-05-17 04:01:37

GoldenEye
Silver Stacker
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2014-12-30
Posts: 592
Trades :   33 

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

TheEnd wrote:

300K!!!

Bloody hell i'm along way off that figure.

Why would'nt it be worth while doing with only 80K???

It sounds like it's easier now than it was a few years back.

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#12 2016-05-17 04:26:24

TheEnd
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Registered: 2011-10-06
Posts: 2,604
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Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

O.k so the Esuperfund site was great and i like the fact that i can invest in physical PM's and they offer storage as well.

I'm thinking i would like to invest about 20k in Gold, 10k in Silver and the rest into Australian shares which has had the most appreciation in my Australian Super account over the last 5 years.

Will do some more reading and research and have a good hard think about it.

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#13 2016-05-17 04:41:40

House
Moderator/ Legend
From: Stack City
Registered: 2012-04-30
Posts: 9,643
Trades :   232 

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

You can do it with any amount, heard of someone doing it with less than $10k. Just depends if you think the fees are justified to have control over your Financial Destiny™ and take some responsibility.

Buying PM's is good and all but you'd be much better off looking at something that provides an income or dividend. In 30 years time you'll be kicking yourself if you don't.

What makes you think your portfolio would hold better than general Super fund in a crash? If the Gov goes diddling with Super, they'll be diddling with SMSF's too.
c4MkxYE.jpg


WBI- 41.16

"There's no point in paying a mortgage on an asset that is going to fall by 40 per cent or so in the next few years". Steve Keen, 2008.
Stacker FAQ'S. New threads welcome- http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic- … faq-s.html

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#14 2016-05-17 05:22:20

TheEnd
Member
Registered: 2011-10-06
Posts: 2,604
Trades :   

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

O.k House so what sort of investment would provide income or dividends?

I'm a bit confused now??

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#15 2016-05-17 05:32:59

House
Moderator/ Legend
From: Stack City
Registered: 2012-04-30
Posts: 9,643
Trades :   232 

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

Pretty much anything except physical PM's- Property (commercial, residential), shares, bonds, ETFs, term deposits, ATM's, unit trusts managed funds etc


WBI- 41.16

"There's no point in paying a mortgage on an asset that is going to fall by 40 per cent or so in the next few years". Steve Keen, 2008.
Stacker FAQ'S. New threads welcome- http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic- … faq-s.html

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#16 2016-05-17 05:43:31

TheEnd
Member
Registered: 2011-10-06
Posts: 2,604
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Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

House wrote:

Pretty much anything except physical PM's- Property (commercial, residential), shares, bonds, ETFs, term deposits, ATM's, unit trusts managed funds etc

O.k well I'm trying to keep my investment as simple as possible which is why I like physical PM's. (especially if they can be stored away for free with Esuper)

I think I need to wait and see what happens to PM prices over next few months.

Been waiting for Gold to break 1300 and beyond for the last week or so.

So many things are up in the air at the moment?

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#17 2016-05-17 06:43:05

trew
Silver Stacker
From: Melbern
Registered: 2011-08-24
Posts: 3,963
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Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

just leave your super alone and focus on improving your income and savings

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#18 2016-05-17 07:14:06

markc
Member
From: Brisbane
Registered: 2011-04-30
Posts: 331
Trades :   38 

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

There are so many things wrong in your way of thinking.

TheEnd wrote:

O.k well I'm trying to keep my investment as simple as possible which is why I like physical PM's. (especially if they can be stored away for free with Esuper)

Gold and silver are not an investment.  They're a store of wealth. 

TheEnd wrote:

I think I need to wait and see what happens to PM prices over next few months.

Been waiting for Gold to break 1300 and beyond for the last week or so.

So you're going to wait until they move higher before you buy? 

TheEnd wrote:

So many things are up in the air at the moment?

When has there ever been a time when things were not up in the air?

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#19 2016-05-17 07:33:04

tozak
Silver Stacker
From: Australia
Registered: 2011-05-05
Posts: 2,037
Trades :   177 

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

There is no set amount you need, I have mine setup with esuperfund which works out to cost about 25% of what an accountant would charge and they seem to know a heck of a lot more about the SMSF industry than most accountants.

I only have $20K-$25K in mine atm but that doesn't matter to me, I add about $7K a year to it and my running expenses are around $2K a year, leaves me about $5K to invest each year.

I figure all super money is just retirement IOU play money anyway so you may as well loose it yourself rather than paying someone else to loose it for you.

In the end I'll most likely be part of that generation that has all their super forcefully stolen through superannuation changes that will force all funds to invest only in government bonds and payouts be paid in the form of an old age pension again meaning this time super effectively just becomes another form of income tax.


The whole world only one block apart

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#20 2016-05-17 08:58:20

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

TheEnd wrote:

O.k House so what sort of investment would provide income or dividends?

Shares for example.
But ideally you also want ones that offer dividend reinvestment, so you just accumulate more shares automagically over time.
There are specific companies (usually the big ones) on the ASX that have dividend reinvestment schemes. These are perfect for SMSF's.

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#21 2016-05-17 09:00:04

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

trew wrote:

just leave your super alone and focus on improving your income and savings

I don't agree. It so easy to do now, and it's flexible. For example, if you are running business and you need an office, you can buy it in your SMSF and rent it to your company. (Yes, that is legal for Pty Ltd's provided you pay "market rate" rent)

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#22 2016-05-17 11:25:18

Topherclaus
Member
From: Central Coast, NSW
Registered: 2015-11-15
Posts: 486
Trades :   15 

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

I actually spoke to my accountant about this today. He reckons the biggest loan a bank would consider on property for a SMSF is around 75% but even that would be difficult. So you'd need 25-50% of the capital already, which means you're locked out of that market for now.
I'm also looking to go down the path of taking control. I'll most likely look at some small amount of PMs but I kind of figure I've already future-proofed myself with my personal stack. I'll be going down the path mostly of some PM miners, lithium miners, alternative energy providers, that kind of thing. Markets that I see will be strong over the next 3-5 years for sure and reassess every few months and create a future strategy down the track.


An addiction to drugs would be cheaper.
- silver and gold anon. member -

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#23 2016-05-17 17:31:17

House
Moderator/ Legend
From: Stack City
Registered: 2012-04-30
Posts: 9,643
Trades :   232 

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

^^^ can borrow upto 80% if the fund has a corporate trustee. $400k will get you a decent house in good old Brisbane.

Here's a good thread to read- http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic- … ng-it.html

Look up the ATO asset allocation breakdowns for SMSF's, commodities are about .5% or so of overall total holdings and for good reason. Choosing something because it is 'simple' is definitely not a good choice in the long run wink


WBI- 41.16

"There's no point in paying a mortgage on an asset that is going to fall by 40 per cent or so in the next few years". Steve Keen, 2008.
Stacker FAQ'S. New threads welcome- http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic- … faq-s.html

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#24 2016-05-17 17:35:38

Revils
Silver Stacker
From: Australia
Registered: 2013-06-20
Posts: 848
Trades :   53 

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

TheEnd wrote:

O.k House so what sort of investment would provide income or dividends?

I'm a bit confused now??

This is why you shouldn't have an SMSF - I don't want to be a bully, but if you don't understand basic investment principles just leave it in your current fund.

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#25 2016-05-17 20:53:12

REDBACK
Silver Stacker
From: Trump supporters matter
Registered: 2011-11-22
Posts: 3,314

Re: Should I start an SMSF before the government loses all my super?

My great grand father used to say "Never a better lesson was learnt without the loss of money" roughly translated from the german.
Jump in and learn from the inside its not that daunting,make reading and learning your best friend.
Plenty of resources available for free to help you to keep your SMSF compliant and your paid resources are your wicket keepers.
My education fund runs around 200k plus ATM

Love NIKE's motto ~Just Do it  smile


REDBACK

Last edited by REDBACK (2016-05-17 20:53:47)


"Buy now Cry later!!"

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