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#1 2016-01-26 00:45:52

JulieW
Silver Stacker
From: Australia
Registered: 2010-10-14
Posts: 11,087

Insurances

I'm interested in hearing people's perspectives on the issue of insurances. From home insurances to car insurances, health etc.

Do you insure your stack in any way apart from excellent security? e.g house and contents.
Landlord insurance if you've an IP - worth it, reasons?
Car Insurance - comprehensive, extended third party or insure against no-claim bonus, get a hire car, windscreen exception etc?
Life Insurance - Part of your planning?
Income Insurance - Worth it?
Tools insurance - Worth it?
Health Insurance - Just pay the medicare  levy and hope, or pay extra for some level of control?
Health Extras Insurance for life's challenges, or save the premium for such things?
Funeral Insurance - one never know do one.

It seems to me that actuaries have the answers and insurance companies rely on the odds for the difference. Do you insure against the fear of the worst, or work out the odds, or do you put away an amount each week or month or year to cover such contingencies.

Also, importantly, do you have recommendations or warnings about any pitfalls, companies or angles to consider.

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#2 2016-01-26 01:02:31

Skyrocket
Silver Stacker
From: Melbourne
Registered: 2014-07-20
Posts: 4,849
Trades :   36 

Re: Insurances

Why are you interested in (having) all those insurances for?

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#3 2016-01-26 01:08:50

JulieW
Silver Stacker
From: Australia
Registered: 2010-10-14
Posts: 11,087

Re: Insurances

Some I think are, perhaps, necessary, but I'd like to hear opinions.

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#4 2016-01-26 01:15:32

Skyrocket
Silver Stacker
From: Melbourne
Registered: 2014-07-20
Posts: 4,849
Trades :   36 

Re: Insurances

But the necessary ones you should already have?

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#5 2016-01-26 01:23:27

willrocks
Silver Stacker
From: Yesterday
Registered: 2012-05-10
Posts: 7,628
Trades :   29 

Re: Insurances

I've got house insurance and life insurance. When kids grow up will probably discontinue the life insurance.


"You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

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#6 2016-01-26 01:28:25

mmm....shiney!
Silver Stacker
From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 15,893
Trades :   102 
Website

Re: Insurances

JulieW wrote:

Some I think are, perhaps, necessary, but I'd like to hear opinions.

Life insurance/TPD with premiums paid by our SMSF, will cover all our debts as well as a significant amount that can be invested in say a property that would provide a passive income stream for the surviving partner.

Income protection insurance paid for privately, premiums are 100% tax deductible, but not cheap. Cuts out at about 60 or 65 I think, can't remember.

Trauma which I think our SMSF covers which fills the gap between the others should one of us be diagnosed with a specific life threatening disease/condition.

Insurance is about wealth protection, and in the case of income protection there is the added benefit of tax minimisation. Not all insurance companies provide the same sort of benefits, best to get a broker to find the one for you. But I think they are pretty essential.


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#7 2016-01-26 01:28:57

hiho
Silver Stacker
From: South Brisbane
Registered: 2011-04-04
Posts: 8,100
Trades :   270 

Re: Insurances

mandatory ones for me are
Health or I get taxed more medicare levy
Car including hire car cover, can't afford not to have one on the road
Income and life comes as part of my superann I have with the company I work with, probaly would self insure otherwise
Home and contents, yes
IP property is a townhouse under body corp so dont require any insurance there.

other than that I buy siver/gold as insurance against anything else I cant think of

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#8 2016-01-26 04:36:27

sammysilver
Silver Stacker
From: Sydney
Registered: 2011-04-07
Posts: 5,480
Trades :   189 
Website

Re: Insurances

I have taken advantage of free $100,000 vault insurance through buying bullion direct.

Last edited by sammysilver (2016-01-26 04:36:48)


The price we pay for the good life is public servitude.

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#9 2016-01-26 06:07:06

Arsenal
Member
From: Siderney
Registered: 2011-03-18
Posts: 352
Trades :   12 

Re: Insurances

With Insurance, I ask what is the cost if you don't have it and something bad happens.

Income protection is a must for me. Most people have it built into their super however it is very limited ie 2 years so I have a seperate policy. If I can't work then I lose my homes attached to their mortgages and what sort of life would I have if I didn't have my home anymore? I have worked all my life to live where I live and enjoy it.  Also what life would my family have and my children if I didn't have an income?   This is why IP is a must for me.

I pay it outside super as it is tax deductible however I am thinking of paying it through super to give me extra cashflow.


Life is usually a component in peoples super however if you have allot of debt it is worth finding out how much extra it costs to cover your new amount or look at a 3rd party.

For me home and car are also a must however if my car is pretty old it is just 3rd party not full comprehensive.

Heath yes as its compulsory but in saying that I have made hospital visits which the insurers has paid 10's of thousands of dollars so it was totally worth it.

Insurance is kinda a dirty topic sometimes  but I know that when I go to sleep I don't worry. If something happens to me, either I or my family doesn't have to worry financially and that is worth it for me.

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#10 2016-01-26 06:59:14

Ronnie 666
Silver Stacker
From: Australia
Registered: 2011-03-16
Posts: 2,401
Trades :   175 

Re: Insurances

sammysilver wrote:

I have taken advantage of free $100,000 vault insurance through buying bullion direct.

Sammy how does that work ? You own the bullion I presume?  how can BD insure your bullion. I thought you need to own something to insure it. Can you insure your neighbour's house ? If the storage company insures you they need to claim in the event of a loss and they would get paid out not you. Does this not pose a counterparty risk ? Also how do you know if the premiums have been paid ? Is it not worth you taking out your own policy and paying for it. I have learned that nothing is for free...but maybe I am wrong ?


"The Two Most Common Elements in the Universe Are Hydrogen and Stupidity" Frank Zappa

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#11 2016-01-26 07:20:21

trew
Silver Stacker
From: Melbern
Registered: 2011-08-24
Posts: 3,958
Trades :   

Re: Insurances

car - comprehensive
income protection - yes
health - both hospital & extras - sometimes think of cutting the extras

don't bother with life insurance - super fund has a built in death benefit

funeral - no - don't see the point unless you are planning to die completely broke

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#12 2016-01-26 07:32:54

willrocks
Silver Stacker
From: Yesterday
Registered: 2012-05-10
Posts: 7,628
Trades :   29 

Re: Insurances

I use Guardian Vaults to store my bullion. I don't think it's insured. I don't explicitly pay for insurance.


"You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

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#13 2016-01-26 07:46:45

Currawong
Silver Stacker
From: Melbourne
Registered: 2015-07-16
Posts: 171
Trades :   

Re: Insurances

Tool insurance (for tradesmen assumedly) is kind of important depending on your employment circumstances. If you work for yourself then you rely on them so you can't afford for them to be stolen (this is also where income insurance intersects this). If you're employed by a contractor and you've got a company car then that company policy will probably cover everything in the car/van.
If you check with your auto insurer most comprehensive policies cover tools/contents up to about 5k anyway.
So unless you're in a specialised trade (like electrical) and carry expensive meters and specialised tools I don't really think it'd be worth it.

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#14 2016-01-26 08:38:03

GoldenEye
Silver Stacker
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2014-12-30
Posts: 587
Trades :   33 

Re: Insurances

I figure you only need insurance for things that could cause serious financial hardship. So if you have an old car and you crash, it won't be too expensive to replace it, and so you may only want TPO insurance. However, losing your house would be a disaster for most people, and so insurance is necessary.

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#15 2016-01-26 09:02:08

silverbait
Silver Stacker
From: Sydney, Kingsford
Registered: 2015-04-12
Posts: 579
Trades :   87 

Re: Insurances

willrocks wrote:

I use Guardian Vaults to store my bullion. I don't think it's insured. I don't explicitly pay for insurance.

I use them as well. From my dull memory they do cover up to 20K without any fee and if you can insist they can increase the cover free of charge and also will be re assuring you with the level of security ( basically telling you that you will not need any cover because their level of security is very high). I guess insurance policy is by an insurance company for your losses but you need to be able to prove that you lost such an amount cash or valuables brings a lot of headache I guess...???

Car insurance is YES Comprehensive for more than 2K car, at least 3rd party for lesser car on top of compulsory green sleep of course.
Travel insurance YES
HOME insurance YES
Health insurance I AM LOOKING AT THAT
Handing your spare vault key to family member in case you pass away YES
Funeral insurance NO
Life insurance NO

HEALTH insurance is an insurance I need advice on as paying a bit extra could get me dental or other benefits I would be signing up.

Insurance is a must in many areas if your loss is higher than what you will save in case of an accident etc. I dont wanna be out of pocket by 200K in case I hit an expensive car.

All the best and I hope no one will make any insurance claims for a long time


"The real question is not whether life exists after death. The real question is whether you are alive before death."  OSHO

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#16 2016-01-26 17:22:40

Ronnie 666
Silver Stacker
From: Australia
Registered: 2011-03-16
Posts: 2,401
Trades :   175 

Re: Insurances

I am not sure if SS here have read what I wrote? Assuming they store bullion at a secure depository how can the depository insure their bullion. One of the fundamental aspects of insurance is you need some claim of title. If I am wrong then there is a minefield of procedure as regards claims? Who owns the policy ? Who owns the bullion? Who gets paid who has a loss. Sounds complex.

Secondly, nothing is 100% secure, if true the insurance company would charge you nothing to insure. My understanding is that insurance spreads the risk but does not eliminate it. While I fully accept that bullion storage is very secure in most circumstances it is not infallible as we saw in London last year. It is surely safer to insure using your own policy ?


"The Two Most Common Elements in the Universe Are Hydrogen and Stupidity" Frank Zappa

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#17 2016-01-26 22:42:00

sammysilver
Silver Stacker
From: Sydney
Registered: 2011-04-07
Posts: 5,480
Trades :   189 
Website

Re: Insurances

Ronnie 666 wrote:
sammysilver wrote:

I have taken advantage of free $100,000 vault insurance through buying bullion direct.

Sammy how does that work ? You own the bullion I presume?  how can BD insure your bullion. I thought you need to own something to insure it. Can you insure your neighbour's house ? If the storage company insures you they need to claim in the event of a loss and they would get paid out not you. Does this not pose a counterparty risk ? Also how do you know if the premiums have been paid ? Is it not worth you taking out your own policy and paying for it. I have learned that nothing is for free...but maybe I am wrong ?

You buy the metal from the vault's own bullion shop and they they give you free insurance of $100,000 for 3 years. Normal free insurance is $20,000 from the vault.


The price we pay for the good life is public servitude.

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#18 2016-01-26 23:20:29

GoldenEye
Silver Stacker
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2014-12-30
Posts: 587
Trades :   33 

Re: Insurances

sammysilver wrote:

You buy the metal from the vault's own bullion shop and they they give you free insurance of $100,000 for 3 years. Normal free insurance is $20,000 from the vault.

Which vaults are making this offer?

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#19 2016-01-26 23:49:14

House
Moderator/ Legend
From: Stack City
Registered: 2012-04-30
Posts: 9,635
Trades :   232 

Re: Insurances

GoldenEye wrote:
sammysilver wrote:

You buy the metal from the vault's own bullion shop and they they give you free insurance of $100,000 for 3 years. Normal free insurance is $20,000 from the vault.

Which vaults are making this offer?

Guardian Gold. Tell them Big Daddy sent you and you'll get a free paper weight wink


WBI- 41.16

"There's no point in paying a mortgage on an asset that is going to fall by 40 per cent or so in the next few years". Steve Keen, 2008.
Stacker FAQ'S. New threads welcome- http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic- … faq-s.html

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#20 2016-01-26 23:58:32

Ronnie 666
Silver Stacker
From: Australia
Registered: 2011-03-16
Posts: 2,401
Trades :   175 

Re: Insurances

sammysilver wrote:
Ronnie 666 wrote:
sammysilver wrote:

I have taken advantage of free $100,000 vault insurance through buying bullion direct.

Sammy how does that work ? You own the bullion I presume?  how can BD insure your bullion. I thought you need to own something to insure it. Can you insure your neighbour's house ? If the storage company insures you they need to claim in the event of a loss and they would get paid out not you. Does this not pose a counterparty risk ? Also how do you know if the premiums have been paid ? Is it not worth you taking out your own policy and paying for it. I have learned that nothing is for free...but maybe I am wrong ?

You buy the metal from the vault's own bullion shop and they they give you free insurance of $100,000 for 3 years. Normal free insurance is $20,000 from the vault.

Offering free insurance and successfully claiming and getting paid out are different animals. I think we need someone who has some expertise in the insurance world to comment. I am concerned that this offer is only worth what you paid - nothing.


"The Two Most Common Elements in the Universe Are Hydrogen and Stupidity" Frank Zappa

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#21 2016-01-27 01:56:39

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Insurances

JulieW wrote:

Do you insure your stack in any way apart from excellent security? e.g house and contents.

Someone else handles the security, so don't have to specifically pay for it. No insurance as such, I trust their security.

Landlord insurance if you've an IP - worth it, reasons?

N/A at present, but you probably get "just in case". Idiots can (try) sue you if they trip in their own house they rent from you.

Car Insurance - comprehensive, extended third party or insure against no-claim bonus, get a hire car, windscreen exception etc?

I usually drop comprehensive once value gets low enough (say $5-10k)
3rd party property in that case of course.

Life Insurance - Part of your planning?

Got it through my SMSF
Worth it when you have kids, you know it can pay for their education etc, your partner won't struggle as much.

Income Insurance - Worth it?

Don't have it, but thinking about it, once again through the SMSF I consider almost free/play money at this point anyway.

Tools insurance - Worth it?

Not worth it. But I got it as part of my business insurance package anyway.

Health Insurance - Just pay the medicare  levy and hope, or pay extra for some level of control?

I just have the minimum required to offset the extra tax.
Can be important if panning kids.

Health Extras Insurance for life's challenges, or save the premium for such things?

Health in particular I regard as a bit of a con.
If you have the call an ambulance then you will get treated immediately regardless. Choosing your own doctor or hospital etc is bullshit if you just had a heart attack or something.
Private plays a part after the fact if you have to stay in hospital. Basic hospital cover (required to avoid the extra tax) covers this anyway.
Anything else unless you plan on having kids is a waste of money IMO.

Funeral Insurance - one never know do one.

A con designed to pray on fears of the elderly.
Maybe if your family is so poor they can't afford their next rent payment?

It seems to me that actuaries have the answers and insurance companies rely on the odds for the difference. Do you insure against the fear of the worst, or work out the odds, or do you put away an amount each week or month or year to cover such contingencies.

Generally I'm a fan of saving the money and having it available for any issues that come up, rather than pay insurance for stuff.
Important for SHTF stuff (death etc), but I don't see it as helpful in everyday life. e.g. private heath paying for your yoga classes etc.

Last edited by SilverDJ (2016-01-27 02:00:37)

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#22 2016-01-27 02:11:29

mmm....shiney!
Silver Stacker
From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 15,893
Trades :   102 
Website

Re: Insurances

Edited because I was a goober

Last edited by mmm....shiney! (2016-01-27 05:13:26)


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#23 2016-01-27 02:42:51

scrooged
Member
From: Melbs
Registered: 2014-05-06
Posts: 1,227
Trades :   53 

Re: Insurances

House wrote:
GoldenEye wrote:
sammysilver wrote:

You buy the metal from the vault's own bullion shop and they they give you free insurance of $100,000 for 3 years. Normal free insurance is $20,000 from the vault.

Which vaults are making this offer?

Guardian Gold. Tell them Big Daddy sent you and you'll get a free paper weight stamped 1966 ;I)

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#24 2016-01-27 04:56:08

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Insurances

mmm....shiney! wrote:

@SilverDJ, you cannot take out Income protection insurance as part of your SMSF, it must be paid for privately.  smile

Oh, bugger, was about to check on that sad

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#25 2016-01-27 05:01:20

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Insurances

SilverDJ wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:

@SilverDJ, you cannot take out Income protection insurance as part of your SMSF, it must be paid for privately.  smile

Oh, bugger, was about to check on that sad

I checked and it seems you can:
http://www.wealthsmart.com.au/superannu … sf-income/
http://www.moneymanagement.com.au/news/ … rannuation
http://www.insurancewatch.com.au/life-i … smsfs.html

And yep, my life insurance SMSF provider offer it:
http://www.agigroup.com.au/wholesale-rates-for-smsfs

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