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#76 2015-07-18 09:51:39

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

yennus wrote:

You're right that they rely on fear, coercion and the threat of violence... I would much prefer they operate on a more benevolent basis (e.g. no medicare, no social security, etc if you are late in paying your tax)... kinda like the utility companies (e.g. don't pay your electricity bill, and they can turn off your power).

For obvious logistical reasons society can't work like that. That's why the income tax system exists the way it does.
The only way to morally exit the system is to exit it entirely, i.e go bush, live off the land and not rely on modern society in any way again.

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#77 2015-07-18 10:08:57

col0016
Member
From: Australia, Melbourne
Registered: 2011-01-04
Posts: 2,649
Trades :   20 

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

SilverDJ wrote:
yennus wrote:

You're right that they rely on fear, coercion and the threat of violence... I would much prefer they operate on a more benevolent basis (e.g. no medicare, no social security, etc if you are late in paying your tax)... kinda like the utility companies (e.g. don't pay your electricity bill, and they can turn off your power).

For obvious logistical reasons society can't work like that. That's why the income tax system exists the way it does.
The only way to morally exit the system is to exit it entirely, i.e go bush, live off the land and not rely on modern society in any way again.

Pretty sure that's illegal

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#78 2015-07-20 00:11:28

f40
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2010-10-19
Posts: 447
Trades :   13 

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

I am aware of a few different people who don't pay income tax.

Some do it through private foundations, others just flatly refuse to pay.

One individual I know hasnt paid income tax since around 2000. He has been taken to court several times by the ATO and wins every time.

Another guy I have heard of rumour has it doesn't pay his mortgage with real cash, he pays the bank every month with a "promissory note".

From all accounts the bank took him the whole way to the supreme court and it was deemed legal what he was doing. However he can only pay monthly and not pay out his mortgage with one large promissory note.

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#79 2015-07-20 01:35:02

willrocks
Silver Stacker
From: Yesterday
Registered: 2012-05-10
Posts: 7,628
Trades :   29 

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

f40 wrote:

From all accounts the bank took him the whole way to the supreme court and it was deemed legal what he was doing. However he can only pay monthly and not pay out his mortgage with one large promissory note.

Can you send the court transcript?


"You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

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#80 2015-07-20 01:46:27

-j-p-shmorgan
Member
Registered: 2015-05-24
Posts: 1,080
Trades :   

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

willrocks wrote:
f40 wrote:

From all accounts the bank took him the whole way to the supreme court and it was deemed legal what he was doing. However he can only pay monthly and not pay out his mortgage with one large promissory note.

Can you send the court transcript?

If not a court transcript, a source of this factual information would be cool.  cool

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#81 2015-07-20 01:48:46

f40
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2010-10-19
Posts: 447
Trades :   13 

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

willrocks wrote:
f40 wrote:

From all accounts the bank took him the whole way to the supreme court and it was deemed legal what he was doing. However he can only pay monthly and not pay out his mortgage with one large promissory note.

Can you send the court transcript?

Nope, I cant unfortunately. I don't know what case it is and don't even know if its true.

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#82 2015-07-20 01:51:20

f40
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2010-10-19
Posts: 447
Trades :   13 

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

-j-p-shmorgan wrote:
willrocks wrote:
f40 wrote:

From all accounts the bank took him the whole way to the supreme court and it was deemed legal what he was doing. However he can only pay monthly and not pay out his mortgage with one large promissory note.

Can you send the court transcript?

If not a court transcript, a source of this factual information would be cool.  cool

It was just word of mouth, hence it been a rumour.

i.e. Joe Blogs over there uses promissory notes to pay his mortgage, blah blah.

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#83 2015-07-20 02:05:09

f40
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2010-10-19
Posts: 447
Trades :   13 

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

This isnt the case, but it mentions the basic principals.

file.php?id=10726&t=1&sid=4cf95029396c6d540dab2a16db49f31c
Source:

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#84 2015-07-20 02:09:44

-j-p-shmorgan
Member
Registered: 2015-05-24
Posts: 1,080
Trades :   

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

f40 wrote:

This isnt the case, but it mentions the basic principals.

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/d … 16db49f31c
Source:

Interesting.  Although, it was a unique circumstance.  He used it for an ill sibling...

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#85 2015-07-20 05:28:14

yennus
Silver Stacker
From: Shanghai:Sydney
Registered: 2010-10-24
Posts: 4,796
Trades :   431 
Website

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

f40 wrote:

I am aware of a few different people who don't pay income tax.

Some do it through private foundations, others just flatly refuse to pay....

How does that work?

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#86 2015-07-20 05:35:41

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

col0016 wrote:

Pretty sure that's illegal

Why?
What's illegal about living off your own land off the grid?

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#87 2016-05-10 08:13:11

SpacePete
Silver Stacker
Registered: 2014-03-01
Posts: 13,437
Trades :   122 
Website

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

Any update on this? It seems like every year the government and ATO become more and more intrusive into the lives of individuals and small business. They want their pound of flesh and there are few avenues of escape.

Last edited by SpacePete (2016-05-10 08:13:32)


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#88 2016-05-10 08:21:20

SpacePete
Silver Stacker
Registered: 2014-03-01
Posts: 13,437
Trades :   122 
Website

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

SilverDJ wrote:
col0016 wrote:

Pretty sure that's illegal

Why?
What's illegal about living off your own land off the grid?

I'm guessing the illegality is more about attempting to exit society entirely by "going bush" which was the earlier comment. There are so many laws and regulations that apply to everything.


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#89 2016-05-10 09:37:08

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

SilverPete wrote:
SilverDJ wrote:
col0016 wrote:

Pretty sure that's illegal

Why?
What's illegal about living off your own land off the grid?

I'm guessing the illegality is more about attempting to exit society entirely by "going bush" which was the earlier comment. There are so many laws and regulations that apply to everything.

Couldn't you just pay up anything owing, and then just tell the tax department you will no longer be filing a tax return next year?
Heck, can you even get your tax file number removed I wonder?
As long as you earn no income that is taxable (above the tax free 18,200 threshold actually) the government surely have no right to chase you for anything?
I see nothing "illegal" in choosing to not earn any more income and no longer filling in a tax return.
They even have a checklist for it:
https://expertsystems.ato.gov.au/script … Lodge/2015

If you own land and live off it, and don't earn over $18k or have business etc then you shouldn't have to file a tax return any more. Off the grid you go.
Only one who might chase you is the local council for your rates or whatever.

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#90 2016-05-10 09:42:18

Ipv6Ready
Silver Stacker
From: North Sydney
Registered: 2016-01-08
Posts: 2,204
Trades :   39 

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

SilverDJ wrote:
SilverPete wrote:
SilverDJ wrote:

Why?
What's illegal about living off your own land off the grid?

I'm guessing the illegality is more about attempting to exit society entirely by "going bush" which was the earlier comment. There are so many laws and regulations that apply to everything.

Couldn't you just pay up anything owing, and then just tell the tax department you will no longer be filing a tax return next year?
Heck, can you even get your tax file number removed I wonder?
As long as you earn no income that is taxable (above the tax free 18,200 threshold actually) the government surely have no right to chase you for anything?
I see nothing "illegal" in choosing to not earn any more income and no longer filling in a tax return.
They even have a checklist for it:
https://expertsystems.ato.gov.au/script … Lodge/2015

If you own land and live off it, and don't earn over $18k or have business etc then you shouldn't have to file a tax return any more. Off the grid you go.
Only one who might chase you is the local council for your rates or whatever.


How about rates etc, or if you are off grid don't you get rates?


WTB 4 to 6 grams of pure gold. Don't care if it is coin, bar or granules. Near spot, suits anyone who has been tempted to open a certicard or just have some granules to make a ring

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#91 2016-05-10 09:53:01

alor
Silver Stacker
From: Pulau Alor ;)
Registered: 2011-06-16
Posts: 4,506
Trades :   39 

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

if one can register for one, it can be de-registered


Hear Say See -> N o t h i n g
May this stacking hobby be my blessing smile

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#92 2016-05-10 10:00:21

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

Ipv6Ready wrote:

How about rates etc, or if you are off grid don't you get rates?

Local land tax does not apply to your principle place of residence, or under the tax free threshold.
Rates on the other hand are likely still payable, take the Blue Mountains for example:
http://www.bmcc.nsw.gov.au/yourcouncil/ … atarerates
Even if you tell them to disconnect services (sewage, water, power), I think you are still liable.

But overall, it's entirely legal to earn up to $18k per year and never fill in tax return return again, and if pay your local council rates then you can remove yourself from the federal tax system without any issue.
This couple is refusing to pay council rates:
http://www.coffscoastadvocate.com.au/ne … rt/535267/

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#93 2016-05-10 10:01:04

yennus
Silver Stacker
From: Shanghai:Sydney
Registered: 2010-10-24
Posts: 4,796
Trades :   431 
Website

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

Ipv6Ready wrote:

How about rates etc, or if you are off grid don't you get rates?

Yep, even off-grid you get rates sad

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