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#51 2015-07-06 21:18:58

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

adze67 wrote:

As for income tax...I've offered to let them show me where there is any form of contract or agreement in place and they've been surprisingly unforthcoming...
If they had documentation to support their "claims" and "legality" I'm sure they would be letting me know...very quiet on that though wink

So you are saying you pay zero income tax by simply refusing to pay it?

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#52 2015-07-06 21:31:08

adze67
Silver Stacker
From: A Galaxy far, far away...
Registered: 2011-03-26
Posts: 2,516
Trades :   396 
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Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

SilverDJ wrote:
adze67 wrote:

As for income tax...I've offered to let them show me where there is any form of contract or agreement in place and they've been surprisingly unforthcoming...
If they had documentation to support their "claims" and "legality" I'm sure they would be letting me know...very quiet on that though wink

So you are saying you pay zero income tax by simply refusing to pay it?

I don't "refuse to pay", that would be dishonourable...putting me in a position of dishonour...
I offer "conditional acceptance"...putting the onus back on them to prove the validity of their claim...
If I sent a letter to you and demanded money, surely you would want some form of proof of the "alleged"debt?
We live in a world of contracts...no contractual agreement, no obligation...no consent...

I'm coming off nightshift and heading to bed...will check in later wink


Hope for the Best...but Plan for the Worst ;-)
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#53 2015-07-07 20:31:23

adze67
Silver Stacker
From: A Galaxy far, far away...
Registered: 2011-03-26
Posts: 2,516
Trades :   396 
Website

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

<more tumbleweeds> lol

Ok, just for shizz n giggles...
Tax time now...ask the ATO to define "income" for you...you need a clear definition to be able fill out your "voluntary" declaration of how much you feel you want to give them... 
Did you plant a garden and increase some seeds from nothing to a number of vegetables/plants etc? If so that was an "Income" and should be declared to allow you to give your fair share to "society"...
It's your choice whether to consent or not consent...nobody can force you...but you can consent by not clearly stating your non-consent...it's all a choice and the choice is yours and yours alone...


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#54 2015-07-07 20:48:02

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

adze67 wrote:

I don't "refuse to pay", that would be dishonourable...putting me in a position of dishonour...
I offer "conditional acceptance"...putting the onus back on them to prove the validity of their claim...

Do you eventually pay your income tax or not? Simple question.
You either do or you don't.

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#55 2015-07-07 20:52:02

adze67
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From: A Galaxy far, far away...
Registered: 2011-03-26
Posts: 2,516
Trades :   396 
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Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

No. Simple answer.
They have yet to be able to offer any proof of their legitimacy or validity of claim...

Last edited by adze67 (2015-07-07 20:52:44)


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#56 2015-07-17 10:04:46

ShinyStuff
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2011-04-29
Posts: 608
Trades :   

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

adze67 wrote:

No. Simple answer.
They have yet to be able to offer any proof of their legitimacy or validity of claim...

ok, so as a payg person, My employer takes my tax FIRST and so I have no choice.  If I say to them show me the proof of the contract, will rhey just send a refund for all my withheld tax?

If so many people are doing this, why aren't all the staff at the ato using these flaws in the law?  Surely they would use it too?

Shiny

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#57 2015-07-17 19:17:37

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

adze67 wrote:

No. Simple answer.
They have yet to be able to offer any proof of their legitimacy or validity of claim...

So how many years have you been getting away with not paying your income tax?
Have they sent you a bill and you simply refuse to pay it?

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#58 2015-07-17 19:31:49

-j-p-shmorgan
Member
Registered: 2015-05-24
Posts: 1,080
Trades :   

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

SilverDJ wrote:
adze67 wrote:

No. Simple answer.
They have yet to be able to offer any proof of their legitimacy or validity of claim...

So how many years have you been getting away with not paying your income tax?
Have they sent you a bill and you simply refuse to pay it?

If this guy thinks he's clever and doesn't have to pay taxes, that's wishful thinking.
......just ask Wesley Snipes........  lol

Last edited by -j-p-shmorgan (2015-07-17 19:32:51)

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#59 2015-07-17 20:42:50

adze67
Silver Stacker
From: A Galaxy far, far away...
Registered: 2011-03-26
Posts: 2,516
Trades :   396 
Website

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

SilverDJ wrote:
adze67 wrote:

No. Simple answer.
They have yet to be able to offer any proof of their legitimacy or validity of claim...

So how many years have you been getting away with not paying your income tax?
Have they sent you a bill and you simply refuse to pay it?

About 3 years now...they send "notices" and "running  balances" out  but not bills...
As I pointed out earlier, I'm not refusing to pay I'm merely asking for them to substantiate their "claims"...
If they had proof of their legitimacy and "right" to steal from me surely it would be an easy matter to present it...
But no, they can't...
On to my 4th "Deputy Commissioner of Taxation" now...each  request to  previous ones goes unanswered (and therefore un-rebutted which makes my claims valid...)
It's sort of what they do to you...they claim that they have the right to do what ever they want to you, and as you don't rebut that claim it therefore stands as fact...

If anybody bothers to look through some of the info I posted earlier the situation is explained fairly clearly...


Hope for the Best...but Plan for the Worst ;-)
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#60 2015-07-17 20:44:05

adze67
Silver Stacker
From: A Galaxy far, far away...
Registered: 2011-03-26
Posts: 2,516
Trades :   396 
Website

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

ShinyStuff wrote:
adze67 wrote:

No. Simple answer.
They have yet to be able to offer any proof of their legitimacy or validity of claim...

ok, so as a payg person, My employer takes my tax FIRST and so I have no choice.  If I say to them show me the proof of the contract, will rhey just send a refund for all my withheld tax?

If so many people are doing this, why aren't all the staff at the ato using these flaws in the law?  Surely they would use it too?

Shiny

PAYG is a form of indentured slavery, hence the reason why they take the tax off you before you even get  your money...they treat whatever you earn as profit, not the result of an exchange between 2 parties...

Not many people are doing this because most people are still asleep and believe the propaganda being fed to them by their captors...

Also I would assume that you vote? And therefore have consented to their control? It's a little disingenuous to want to be free without first claiming your freedom wink


Hope for the Best...but Plan for the Worst ;-)
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#61 2015-07-17 20:49:16

-j-p-shmorgan
Member
Registered: 2015-05-24
Posts: 1,080
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Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

No taxation without representation!!!
Well my friend - there IS representation.
When they subpena your bank, other income methods, and conduct an audit, you'll be in a world of hurt.

By all means, keep denying any effort to pay taxes.
If there is one thing the government is good at....it's collecting taxes.
Whether now, or later, you'll pay like everyone else.  lmfao

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#62 2015-07-17 21:20:54

adze67
Silver Stacker
From: A Galaxy far, far away...
Registered: 2011-03-26
Posts: 2,516
Trades :   396 
Website

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

-j-p-shmorgan wrote:

No taxation without representation!!!
Well my friend - there IS representation.
When they subpena your bank, other income methods, and conduct an audit, you'll be in a world of hurt.

By all means, keep denying any effort to pay taxes.
If there is one thing the government is good at....it's collecting taxes.
Whether now, or later, you'll pay like everyone else.  lmfao

Thanks for your concern...
As I stated earlier  I pay, and have paid, plenty of taxes...more than most...
As a former smoker of 40 years and heavy drinker I also paid an inordinate amount of additional taxes that were paid for out of money that had already been taxed...
Even without the income tax portion around half of your money goes to taxes...
And they just keep slowly dialling the temperature on the slow boiling frogs lol
It's a free world...you're free to believe what you like...

And as for "representation"? no thanks...I'll present myself, no wish to have anyone "re-present" me wink


Hope for the Best...but Plan for the Worst ;-)
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#63 2015-07-17 21:29:27

-j-p-shmorgan
Member
Registered: 2015-05-24
Posts: 1,080
Trades :   

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

adze67 wrote:
-j-p-shmorgan wrote:

No taxation without representation!!!
Well my friend - there IS representation.
When they subpena your bank, other income methods, and conduct an audit, you'll be in a world of hurt.

By all means, keep denying any effort to pay taxes.
If there is one thing the government is good at....it's collecting taxes.
Whether now, or later, you'll pay like everyone else.  lmfao

Thanks for your concern...
As I stated earlier  I pay, and have paid, plenty of taxes...more than most...
As a former smoker of 40 years and heavy drinker I also paid an inordinate amount of additional taxes that were paid for out of money that had already been taxed...
Even without the income tax portion around half of your money goes to taxes...
And they just keep slowly dialling the temperature on the slow boiling frogs lol
It's a free world...you're free to believe what you like...

And as for "representation"? no thanks...I'll present myself, no wish to have anyone "re-present" me wink

Sin Tax / = / Income Tax
I could care less whether you pay your outstanding debts.  You don't owe the money to ME... lol
Just letting you know ahead of time before they forcefully collect.....
In 10 years when you owe a boatload, I'll say "I told you so".  lol

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#64 2015-07-17 21:34:26

-j-p-shmorgan
Member
Registered: 2015-05-24
Posts: 1,080
Trades :   

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

I'd consider burying some PM in case they decide to collect your assets, and sell them at pennies on the dollar.  lolololol

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#65 2015-07-17 23:05:31

Chubbsng
Silver Stacker
From: Brisbane
Registered: 2015-04-27
Posts: 154
Trades :   22 

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

adze67 wrote:
SilverDJ wrote:
adze67 wrote:

No. Simple answer.
They have yet to be able to offer any proof of their legitimacy or validity of claim...

So how many years have you been getting away with not paying your income tax?
Have they sent you a bill and you simply refuse to pay it?

About 3 years now...they send "notices" and "running  balances" out  but not bills...
As I pointed out earlier, I'm not refusing to pay I'm merely asking for them to substantiate their "claims"...
If they had proof of their legitimacy and "right" to steal from me surely it would be an easy matter to present it...
But no, they can't...
On to my 4th "Deputy Commissioner of Taxation" now...each  request to  previous ones goes unanswered (and therefore un-rebutted which makes my claims valid...)
It's sort of what they do to you...they claim that they have the right to do what ever they want to you, and as you don't rebut that claim it therefore stands as fact...

If anybody bothers to look through some of the info I posted earlier the situation is explained fairly clearly...

I love your style and a few years back played a similar style game with the ATO. It was under a P/L company not as an individual though and maybe the outcome was different because of that. I felt like i had a point about not paying GST and some other crazy stuff. My accountant said i was wrong and my lawyer said I was double wrong. I dont know what I actually thought but I didnt pay and waited to see end results.

Approximately 2 years after not paying the first amount i got a subpoena to court. I had to pay pretty quick and paid more than 20k in additional costs.

Sorta kinda funny and really dumb. I hope it works for you and perhaps as an individual you may not be bound to same laws but i was breaking a whole lot of corporate laws and was always gonna pay.

Enjoy!


Party time is anytime and anytime is party time

WTB: Any ASEs & silver pandas. 1/10 gold pandas. Any interesting or well priced Pamp gear.

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#66 2015-07-17 23:15:49

SpacePete
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Registered: 2014-03-01
Posts: 13,437
Trades :   122 
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Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

Not paying the ATO is a bit like not paying the Mafia their protection money. Eventually someone's going to come around and break a few fingers.

Do you really want to be a martyr?







.

Last edited by SpacePete (2015-07-17 23:16:57)


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#67 2015-07-18 01:02:27

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

Yep, adze67 is going to be in for a world of hurt in a few years time when the ATO has finally had enough.
Anything who thinks the ATO isn't going to take you to court isn't too smart. And once that happens either you a) defend your case and win, b) lose and pay costs, or c) go to jail. You can't just fob off the courts with asking then to substantiate their "claims".
And also, you're welcome for all those services you take for granted that everyone else pays for and you don't, because, you know, you're special.

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#68 2015-07-18 01:21:32

Chubbsng
Silver Stacker
From: Brisbane
Registered: 2015-04-27
Posts: 154
Trades :   22 

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

I don't know if Adze67 thinks they're special.  The government often plays 'the game' with us so some people feel compelled to play it back.

I dont know the ins and outs of the government or councils or whoevers use of their incoming money but how does it work? Does income tax pay for the roads or does the registration fees cover this? If one never used the roads should they have an exemption from paying the portion of their income tax which is for the roads? I know its a theoretical point and rather complex but thinking income tax is the one thing thats makes our great country great may not be the full picture.

I haven't personally paid income tax in a decade. All very legally (trust me I've been audited more than once) and via companies and trusts and businesses make my way through life. Is it wrong and I'm bludging off society? Well i employ more than 30 people who all pay tax and collect more in Gst in 1 year than a high income payg earner earns in their lifetime so I could argue I'm contributing significantly more than an ordinary payg earner.

Its all interesting stuff.


Party time is anytime and anytime is party time

WTB: Any ASEs & silver pandas. 1/10 gold pandas. Any interesting or well priced Pamp gear.

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#69 2015-07-18 01:30:38

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

Chubbsng wrote:

I haven't personally paid income tax in a decade. All very legally (trust me I've been audited more than once) and via companies and trusts and businesses make my way through life. Is it wrong and I'm bludging off society? Well i employ more than 30 people who all pay tax and collect more in Gst in 1 year than a high income payg earner earns in their lifetime so I could argue I'm contributing significantly more than an ordinary payg earner.

Anyone with a company can do that too, it's just a different way of paying tax. Your first $18k is tax free, and if you can arrange it (legally) so you don't earn any more than that personally, and can sustain yourself by other (legal) means then you don't have to pay any personal income tax, no biggie there.
But that's not what's being discussed here. It's about someone who earns more than $18k in income personally and refuses to pay tax on the rest.

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#70 2015-07-18 01:33:30

Chubbsng
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From: Brisbane
Registered: 2015-04-27
Posts: 154
Trades :   22 

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

Fair enough


Party time is anytime and anytime is party time

WTB: Any ASEs & silver pandas. 1/10 gold pandas. Any interesting or well priced Pamp gear.

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#71 2015-07-18 01:34:14

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,527

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

Chubbsng wrote:

I don't know if Adze67 thinks they're special.  The government often plays 'the game' with us so some people feel compelled to play it back.

Well good luck with that. The ATO will have no hesitation in taking you to court (in fact they might even enjoy it), and once that happens you are forced into a much higher stakes game where the loser pays the victor what's owing plus all sorts of additional costs, or they go to jail. Have fun.

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#72 2015-07-18 01:40:14

Chubbsng
Silver Stacker
From: Brisbane
Registered: 2015-04-27
Posts: 154
Trades :   22 

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

Well they obviously audited me because I pissed them off and i'm pretty sure im on their calendar which reminds them to audit me every few years. I laid my own path with them and chose to fight a completely unwinnable battle. Perhaps same will happen with Adze but I can understand wanting to 'test' the system.


Party time is anytime and anytime is party time

WTB: Any ASEs & silver pandas. 1/10 gold pandas. Any interesting or well priced Pamp gear.

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#73 2015-07-18 02:11:40

-j-p-shmorgan
Member
Registered: 2015-05-24
Posts: 1,080
Trades :   

Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

This guy thinks that since he smoked for 40 years and paid lots of taxes in smokes & alcohol he doesn't need to pay income tax.
All I can say is that I'm glad I'm not in his shoes.  lol

It's all fun & games & hilarious "beating the system"......until it isn't so funny anymore. 
The government is quite resourceful in collecting what's owed to them.
I've spoken my peace, best of luck.  lol

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#74 2015-07-18 03:44:44

adze67
Silver Stacker
From: A Galaxy far, far away...
Registered: 2011-03-26
Posts: 2,516
Trades :   396 
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Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

SilverPete wrote:

Not paying the ATO is a bit like not paying the Mafia their protection money. Eventually someone's going to come around and break a few fingers.

Do you really want to be a martyr?

Interesting analogy there mate, and they operate on the same principles of fear, coercion and threat of violence...
But that doesn't make them right wink
Not sure about being a martyr but if that's where the journey leads...


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#75 2015-07-18 09:43:17

yennus
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From: Shanghai:Sydney
Registered: 2010-10-24
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Re: Want to remove yourself from the Tax System?

You're a brave man adze67... wish there were more people like you... hope you get to keep your fingers and kneecaps too.

You're right that they rely on fear, coercion and the threat of violence... I would much prefer they operate on a more benevolent basis (e.g. no medicare, no social security, etc if you are late in paying your tax)... kinda like the utility companies (e.g. don't pay your electricity bill, and they can turn off your power).

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