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#1 2015-04-26 02:43:32

Clawhammer
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From: Gone Fishin'
Registered: 2010-02-26
Posts: 9,506
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War on Cash continues

Earlier this week we heard that Louisiana has outlawed cash transactions for 2nd hand goods (effectively making garage sales illegal)
http://www.tpnn.com/2015/04/19/house-bi … his-state/
http://schiffgold.com/key-gold-news/cen … =gold-news

And today I read Swiss banks are refusing to hand over the savings of Swiss Pension Funds trying to escape their Central Bank's negative Interest Rates. The Funds have calculated that even with inflation, their member's will still be better off storing their savings as cash (still in Swiss Francs) in a vault (preferably outside the country). That way they're still liquid but escape the bank fees and -ve interest rates.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-2 … witzerland

And America's largest bank has restricted the use of cash payments in certain markets
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-2 … s-war-cash

Last edited by Clawhammer (2015-04-26 02:47:43)


Specialisation is for insects

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#2 2015-04-26 03:34:10

JulieW
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From: Australia
Registered: 2010-10-14
Posts: 11,132

Re: War on Cash continues

First place your frog in cold water, and then bring to the boil slowly.

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#3 2015-04-26 07:51:26

aleks
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From: Karl-Marx-Allee
Registered: 2010-10-14
Posts: 2,392
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Re: War on Cash continues

Would be interesting to see if M0/cash supply has changed much from when the negative interest have kicked in? (Switzerland)

Last edited by aleks (2015-04-26 07:52:04)


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#4 2015-04-26 08:04:20

Clawhammer
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From: Gone Fishin'
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Re: War on Cash continues


Specialisation is for insects

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#5 2015-04-26 16:02:32

bordsilver
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From: The rocks
Registered: 2012-05-23
Posts: 9,610
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Re: War on Cash continues

BTW the Louisiana thing is from ~2011.


The only good tax is a repealed tax.

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#6 2015-04-26 21:10:19

col0016
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From: Australia, Melbourne
Registered: 2011-01-04
Posts: 2,655
Trades :   20 

Re: War on Cash continues

SilverPete wrote:

But if investors simply cannot obtain large amounts of physical cash because banks won't issue it to them, the slightly-below-zero lower bound cannot bind. In which case negative rates could be very negative indeed and no-one would be able to do much about it. There would be no need to abolish or tax cash, as Citi's Willem Buiter suggests. It could simply be ignored.

Umm... PMs going to da moon?

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#7 2015-04-26 21:54:24

willrocks
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From: Yesterday
Registered: 2012-05-10
Posts: 7,635
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Re: War on Cash continues

col0016 wrote:
SilverPete wrote:

But if investors simply cannot obtain large amounts of physical cash because banks won't issue it to them, the slightly-below-zero lower bound cannot bind. In which case negative rates could be very negative indeed and no-one would be able to do much about it. There would be no need to abolish or tax cash, as Citi's Willem Buiter suggests. It could simply be ignored.

Umm... PMs going to da moon?

But will you accept an electronic bank deposit?


"You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

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#8 2015-05-08 02:58:08

aleks
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From: Karl-Marx-Allee
Registered: 2010-10-14
Posts: 2,392
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Re: War on Cash continues

Denmark moves closer to a cashless society

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world … 31995.html

Denmark has moved one step closer to becoming the world's first cashless society, as the government proposes scrapping the obligation for retailers to accept cash as payment.
The Danish government has said that as of next year, business such as clothing retailers, restaurants and petrol stations should no longer be legally bound to accept cash payments.
The proposal is part of a package of economic growth measures, which are being released ahead of this year's Danish election. It aims to reduce costs and increase productivity for Danish businesses.


Only you have your best financial interest at heart, be your own guru

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#9 2015-05-09 20:31:47

Clawhammer
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Registered: 2010-02-26
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Re: War on Cash continues

This article on the values of gold if cash is increasingly 'outlawed'
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-0 … h-outlawed

...does more to convince me that holding physical cash is a sound idea.

More easily recognised and trusted by the 'every man', than precious metals, these new polymer notes will last far longer than the old paper notes.


Specialisation is for insects

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#10 2015-05-09 21:12:40

SpacePete
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Registered: 2014-03-01
Posts: 13,437
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Re: War on Cash continues

Clawhammer wrote:

This article on the values of gold if cash is increasingly 'outlawed'
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-0 … h-outlawed

...does more to convince me that holding physical cash is a sound idea.

More easily recognised and trusted by the 'every man', than precious metals, these new polymer notes will last far longer than the old paper notes.

In the comments there was an interesting suggestion on how the government could destroy public trust in gold and silver (i.e., "strafe the lifeboats"):

In addition to criminalizing the exchange of metals for goods ("only terrorists use gold") you can bet your last ounce of bullion there will be a lot of fake metals (gold plated tungston coins).  Precious metals will be as "distrusted" by the public as bitcoin wallets have become.  To maintain the necessary levels of control, tptb will find it absolutely necessary to strafe the lifeboats, i.e., destroy any alternative to the approved financial instruments.

You may be able to trade gold to an underground "dealer" but it will be at a significant discount to whatever value is assigned to it by the globalists.  I'm not saying don't stack, but be clear headed about it.  Play the scenarios out.  If money is outlawed, it will damn hard to convert your metals at anything resembling fair value because the right connections will be, by definition, criminals, and well-armed criminals at that.


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#11 2015-05-09 21:42:25

SpacePete
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Registered: 2014-03-01
Posts: 13,437
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Re: War on Cash continues

One thought on the above... if the ultra-wealthy have large holdings of physical gold, would that make it unlikely that it would be outlawed?

And if it's more likely that the vast bulk of people will own silver, then it could be the focus of government attempts at restricting its use, or maybe even taxed into oblivion.


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#12 2015-05-10 05:03:07

millededge
Member
From: camp x-ray, spelling division
Registered: 2010-09-04
Posts: 2,474
Trades :   16 

Re: War on Cash continues

Clawhammer wrote:

Earlier this week we heard that Louisiana has outlawed cash transactions for 2nd hand goods (effectively making garage sales illegal)
http://www.tpnn.com/2015/04/19/house-bi … his-state/
http://schiffgold.com/key-gold-news/cen … =gold-news

And today I read Swiss banks are refusing to hand over the savings of Swiss Pension Funds trying to escape their Central Bank's negative Interest Rates. The Funds have calculated that even with inflation, their member's will still be better off storing their savings as cash (still in Swiss Francs) in a vault (preferably outside the country). That way they're still liquid but escape the bank fees and -ve interest rates.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-2 … witzerland

And America's largest bank has restricted the use of cash payments in certain markets
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-2 … s-war-cash

Re: Louisiana

The name of the legislation is "Bill 915"

The link in the OP is ultimately blind, however, elsewhere the bill says:

"A secondhand dealer shall not enter into any cash transactions in payment for the purchase of junk or used or secondhand property. Payment shall be made in the form of check, electronic transfers, or money order issued to the seller of the junk or used or secondhand property and made payable to the name and address of the seller."

Any publicly listed second hand trader stocks like cash converters across the border?

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#13 2015-05-10 05:08:51

millededge
Member
From: camp x-ray, spelling division
Registered: 2010-09-04
Posts: 2,474
Trades :   16 

Re: War on Cash continues

SilverPete wrote:
Clawhammer wrote:

This article on the values of gold if cash is increasingly 'outlawed'
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-0 … h-outlawed

...does more to convince me that holding physical cash is a sound idea.

More easily recognised and trusted by the 'every man', than precious metals, these new polymer notes will last far longer than the old paper notes.

In the comments there was an interesting suggestion on how the government could destroy public trust in gold and silver (i.e., "strafe the lifeboats"):

In addition to criminalizing the exchange of metals for goods ("only terrorists use gold") you can bet your last ounce of bullion there will be a lot of fake metals (gold plated tungston coins).  Precious metals will be as "distrusted" by the public as bitcoin wallets have become.  To maintain the necessary levels of control, tptb will find it absolutely necessary to strafe the lifeboats, i.e., destroy any alternative to the approved financial instruments.

You may be able to trade gold to an underground "dealer" but it will be at a significant discount to whatever value is assigned to it by the globalists.  I'm not saying don't stack, but be clear headed about it.  Play the scenarios out.  If money is outlawed, it will damn hard to convert your metals at anything resembling fair value because the right connections will be, by definition, criminals, and well-armed criminals at that.

You've touched on an important ingredient of the unit of exchange - trust

The psychology of trust and its present parasitism is likely important to developing an effective counter

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#14 2015-08-24 04:05:35

SpacePete
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Registered: 2014-03-01
Posts: 13,437
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Re: War on Cash continues

SilverPete wrote:

One thought on the above... if the ultra-wealthy have large holdings of physical gold, would that make it unlikely that it would be outlawed?

And if it's more likely that the vast bulk of people will own silver, then it could be the focus of government attempts at restricting its use, or maybe even taxed into oblivion.

I just wanted to highlight this point again. What assets are currently being held by those who pull the strings of their political puppets? Only those assets may be safe from government confiscation or excessive taxation should economies collapse and emergency economic measures are rolled out.


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#15 2015-08-24 19:00:47

petey
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Registered: 2010-05-18
Posts: 1,149

Re: War on Cash continues

SilverPete wrote:

What assets are currently being held by those who pull the strings of their political puppets? Only those assets may be safe from government confiscation or excessive taxation should economies collapse and emergency economic measures are rolled out.

The very wealthy own businesses (in the form of companies, income generating assets). Yes, they own other assets too but business makes money. Gold does not. I'd be very surprised if the average HNWI held more than 10% gold.

Some light reading (a little dated)

Last edited by petey (2015-08-24 19:06:40)

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#16 2015-08-24 19:34:16

SpacePete
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Registered: 2014-03-01
Posts: 13,437
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Re: War on Cash continues

petey wrote:
SilverPete wrote:

What assets are currently being held by those who pull the strings of their political puppets? Only those assets may be safe from government confiscation or excessive taxation should economies collapse and emergency economic measures are rolled out.

The very wealthy own businesses (in the form of companies, income generating assets). Yes, they own other assets too but business makes money. Gold does not. I'd be very surprised if the average HNWI held more than 10% gold.

Some light reading (a little dated)

Very interesting, thanks. Their investment advice is interesting too:

We think the rich are likely to get even wealthier in the coming years. Implication 2: we like companies that sell to or service the rich - luxury goods, private banks etc. Favored names include LVMH and Richemont.


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#17 2015-09-21 08:32:37

JulieW
Silver Stacker
From: Australia
Registered: 2010-10-14
Posts: 11,132

Re: War on Cash continues

Interest rates in the UK may have to be cut further from their record low level, the Bank of England's chief economist has warned, as he highlighted signs that the global financial crisis is entering a third phase of turmoil.

Andy Haldane cited evidence of a slowdown on the domestic front and risks to the global economy from China, where an economic downturn has coincided with a stock market rout that has sent shockwaves through the world's markets.

His view that the Bank may need to resort to even more unconventional moves to protect the UK recovery puts Haldane at odds with the Bank's governor, Mark Carney, who has indicated that rates may rise from 0.5% early next year.

The suggestion that rates should stay low for longer will be welcomed by homeowners with tracker mortgages but is a blow to savers who have been hoping to finally see higher returns on their money. The warning from a top Bank official over the UK's fragility is also unwelcome news for George Osborne as he seeks to emphasise his stewardship of the economy following Jeremy Corbyn's election as Labour leader.


Shareholders receive too much money from business – Bank's chief economist
Read more
Haldane, one of nine policymakers who set interest rates, was speaking a day after the US central bank decided to delay an interest rate hike for the world's biggest economy. The US rate-setters blamed a more fragile global outlook in remarks that further rattled jittery financial markets. The FTSE 100 fell more than 1% in the wake of the US decision.

Advertisement

In a wide-ranging speech that called on central bankers to think more radically to fend off the next downturn – including the notion of abolishing cash – Haldane warned the UK was not ready for higher borrowing costs.


www.theguardian.com/business/2015/sep/18/interest-rates-rise-bank-of-england-chief-economist-andy-haldane

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#18 2016-02-23 16:04:50

SpacePete
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Registered: 2014-03-01
Posts: 13,437
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Re: War on Cash continues

"Allowing politicians and central bankers to implement negative interest rates is like giving your teenage son a bottle of whiskey and the keys to the Ferrari─it will only lead to trouble."

"Global debt has increased by over 57 trillion dollars since 2007. At these levels, sovereign debt in particular cannot be repaid with sound currency. Rather than dealing with the debt and slowing its growth to levels below the rate inflation, the central bankers' solution is to instead destroy physical cash and punish savers."


Governments of the World are Coming for Your Cash

Large denomination physical cash is going to be outlawed if central bankers have their way. The push toward a fully digitized monetary system─where every transaction will be recorded, scrutinized, controlled, and taxed─is being sold to the public as some miracle elixir to cure the world of criminal behavior.

It can be argued that up until a few years ago there were still ways to exist off the grid and operate outside the monetary system, but the implementation of negative interest rates has now virtually assured that cash, as we know it, is on its last leg.

You can have cash or you can have negative interest rates, but you can't have both. If negative interest rates are further reduced, what could be described as slow motion bank runs will likely ensue. The common man, seeing his hard earned savings robbed with each declining monthly bank statement, will finally awaken from complacency and begin actively withdrawing their money in physical form, thereby endangering the very foundation of fractional reserve finance.

Banks can't exist without deposits. Keeping money in a mattress is preferable to being financially bled to death with negative rates. Central bankers are well aware of this and are already prepositioning policies and taking steps to prevent the coming exodus. Outlawing large denominational physical cash and large cash transactions will be used to financially imprison the public while the negative interest rates simultaneously pick their pocket.

Laugh all you want. Pretend this is just another conspiracy theory run amok, but these policies are already set into motion in Europe with the U.S. trailing not very far behind. Under the guise of stopping criminal activity, ending corruption, and fighting the global war on terror, the last bastion of financial freedom is now being sacrificed to prop up a debt tsunami.

Global debt has increased by over 57 trillion dollars since 2007. At these levels, sovereign debt in particular cannot be repaid with sound currency. Rather than dealing with the debt and slowing its growth to levels below the rate inflation, the central bankers' solution is to instead destroy physical cash and punish savers.

The cold reality is that just paying the annual interest cost, at historically normal interest rates of 3-4%, would be next to impossible for the majority of the world's governments. Burdened with surging unfunded entitlement obligations, these governments no longer have any wiggle room for surgical reductions in spending. It is simply much easier for governments to reduce borrowing costs to below zero, eliminating those constraining interest payments, than admit they were wrong and reverse course.

Allowing politicians and central bankers to implement negative interest rates is like giving your teenage son a bottle of whiskey and the keys to the Ferrari─it will only lead to trouble. Arguments that the economy of the world is stable and improving does not match up with the over seven trillion dollars in mounting sovereign debt at negative interest rates that requires no interest payments.

The publicly stated reasons for eliminating cash are nothing but a red herring to fool the public into supporting this move and relinquishing their financial freedom without a fight. Criminality of all sorts will always exist with or without physical cash, but admitting to the world that the system itself will implode if ordinary people opt out of the banking system…that is what is really at stake.


More: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government … your-cash/


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#19 2016-02-23 23:09:30

serial
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From: wa
Registered: 2012-08-19
Posts: 3,382
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#20 2016-02-23 23:30:40

SilverDJ
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2014-11-01
Posts: 2,528

Re: War on Cash continues

And if not convicted, she gets the money back, right?

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#21 2016-02-23 23:33:37

SydneySilver
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From: Sydney
Registered: 2012-10-04
Posts: 280
Trades :   27 

Re: War on Cash continues

SilverDJ wrote:

And if not convicted, she gets the money back, right?

Plus interest I hope

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#22 2016-02-24 00:01:35

SpacePete
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Registered: 2014-03-01
Posts: 13,437
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Re: War on Cash continues

SilverDJ wrote:

And if not convicted, she gets the money back, right?

Since it is a charge of "possession of the proceeds of crime" then I believe that is one of the cases where onus of proof is reversed, so even if not convicted of an actual crime, she would have to prove that the money is not from crime.


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#23 2016-02-24 05:23:28

systematic
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Registered: 2010-06-06
Posts: 6,423
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Re: War on Cash continues

The war on cash continues as the banks exercise their private property rights ...


if everyone is thinking the same, we aren't thinking very much ...

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#24 2016-02-24 05:32:54

DanielM
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From: Melbourne
Registered: 2012-10-23
Posts: 2,988
Trades :   31 

Re: War on Cash continues

Credit Crunch wrote:

there was probably $1.2M in there at the beginning but the cops charge with $1.0M.  What is the "criminal" to do? "Yes your honour my crime was actually having more proceeds of crime, $1.2M in fact but the police helped themselves to some of the cash".  Dont think so!

My brothers friend did just that in court in the late 90's. He was charged with possession of 2kg heroin and $100k cash. He turned around and said no it was 5kg and $280k cash. He figured he was already doing a lot of time so turtle it. Bring them down too and they had their day in court too


Don't be shy....Stack it high!!

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#25 2016-02-27 16:50:11

willrocks
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From: Yesterday
Registered: 2012-05-10
Posts: 7,635
Trades :   29 

Re: War on Cash continues

Australia flooded with fake $50 notes so good they fool banks
The number of fake $50 banknotes in circulation has tripled in the past two years.

More than 33,000 fake $50 notes were removed from circulation in 2014-15, triple the number detected just two years ago, government figures show.

The once state-of-the-art security measures used in the design of the polymer $50 banknote are now more than 20 years old, making it vulnerable to advances in digital imaging and printing technology.
...


"You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

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