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#1 2015-02-25 19:39:24

mmm....shiney!
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From: 昆士蘭
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Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Central bankers and their penchant for destroying true price discovery cause the booms and busts as markets are saturated with resources. And of course, if you know your chemistry, once something becomes over saturated, we get precipitation.

Here's a good read about Tesla, the plaything of the rich, green set.

Tesla would not have even made it to its Goldman-led IPO without a $500 million bailout by Uncle Sam. That the hard-pressed taxpayers of America were called upon to underwrite a vanity toy for the wealthy—and one peddled by a serial milker of the public teat—is surely a measure of how deep crony capitalist corruption has penetrated into the business system of America.

http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/david- … part-tesla


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#2 2015-02-27 07:35:32

AngloSaxon
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

I've said it here on SS before - Tesla are not a part of the free market. They don't make money selling cars to customers.

They make money receiving federal US Government subsidies for producing electric vehicles.

They are a complete government crony.


Age Res Proprias Tuas

Now reading: Coming Apart - The State of America by Charles Murray.

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#3 2015-02-27 08:34:11

renovator
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

im not sure about tesla maybe the yanks actually wanted to be forerunners in something .I think it was a good thing to fund ...if you are actually going to fund something it might as well be industry leading technology .Its still better then any other car makers attempt to build an EV as far as i know . happy to be wrong of course i havent been reading much OS

Now shiney keep your knickers on i know you dont approve of spending tax payers money  ..just sayin  tongue:


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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#4 2015-02-27 17:47:04

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

renovator wrote:

im not sure about tesla maybe the yanks actually wanted to be forerunners in something .I think it was a good thing to fund ...if you are actually going to fund something it might as well be industry leading technology .Its still better then any other car makers attempt to build an EV as far as i know . happy to be wrong of course i havent been reading much OS

Now shiney keep your knickers on i know you dont approve of spending tax payers money  ..just sayin  tongue:

This is a guy who took Wall Street by storm. His car company, Tesla (TSLA), has been a market darling. In October of 2012, you could have bought a share of Tesla stock for about $28. That share will cost you over $200 today.

Tesla has a market cap of nearly $28 billion despite never having had a year with positive earnings. EPS for the trailing 12 months is ($2.36). For comparison purposes, Tesla's market cap is only a little less than half that of General Motors, which had net income of $2.8 billion last year.

http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/forget … your-house

So where is the return on the taxpayer's investment?

Last edited by mmm....shiney! (2015-02-27 17:48:24)


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#5 2015-02-27 18:06:37

Naphthalene Man
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

There is just some research you do because of the potential for greater good. ...ducks from shiney's thrown object...


''Up ahead they's a thousand' lives we might live, but when it comes, it'll only be one''
- Ma in John Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath.

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#6 2015-02-27 18:22:05

phrenzy
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

The company has major value now even without profits, they own some of the most important IP relating to EV anywhere. So, if you think electric cars are going to take off, even from another company, then the company has value just on the basis of their patents and knowhow.

they also have a pretty solid plan for becoming profitable that people who do nothing else but evaluate businesses seem happy with.

I don't see tesla as the next GM and I think the valuation is a little crazy as well but it's not like they are a 1999 dot Com hype company.


R.I.P Khaled Al Assad. One man who few will remember, he died defending humanities legacy.
"Hundreds would die, but not the thing they died for. 'A man can stand up..."

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#7 2015-02-27 18:26:32

SpacePete
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

mmm....shiney! wrote:

Central bankers and their penchant for destroying true price discovery cause the booms and busts as markets are saturated with resources. And of course, if you know your chemistry, once something becomes over saturated, we get precipitation.

Here's a good read about Tesla, the plaything of the rich, green set.

Tesla would not have even made it to its Goldman-led IPO without a $500 million bailout by Uncle Sam. That the hard-pressed taxpayers of America were called upon to underwrite a vanity toy for the wealthy—and one peddled by a serial milker of the public teat—is surely a measure of how deep crony capitalist corruption has penetrated into the business system of America.

http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/david- … part-tesla

Well you'll just have to suck it up, wont you. This is why the U.S. is a technological leader.... because people have the balls to take a risk and the entrepreneurial spirit to make things happen.  Fortunately the U.S. is not yet so full of whiny little bitches like you.

Go Tesla!


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#8 2015-02-27 18:44:25

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Naphthalene Man wrote:

There is just some research you do because of the potential for greater good. ...ducks from shiney's thrown object...

smiley-with-bomb.gif


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#9 2015-02-27 18:49:16

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

phrenzy wrote:

The company has major value now even without profits, they own some of the most important IP relating to EV anywhere. So, if you think electric cars are going to take off, even from another company, then the company has value just on the basis of their patents and knowhow.

they also have a pretty solid plan for becoming profitable that people who do nothing else but evaluate businesses seem happy with.

Casey research:  Unless you are imbibing in the hallucination-inducing Kool-Aid dispensed by Goldman Sachs, which took this red-ink machine public in 2009 and has milked it via underwritings, advisories, and early-stage investments for billions, Tesla's valuation was patently absurd. Yet the gamblers piled in based on the utterly improbable assumption that oil would remain at $115 per barrel forever; that a mass market for electric battery autos would soon develop; and that none of the powerhouse marketing and engineering companies like BMW, Toyota, or even Ford would contest Tesla for market share at standard industry profit margins.

The truth is, there is massive excess capacity in the global auto industry owing to government subsidies and bailouts and to union protectionism that keep uncompetitive capacity alive; and that chronic condition is now especially pronounced due to the wildly soaring growth of unused production capacity in China. This means that the global economy is literally saturated with expert resources for auto engineering, design, assembly, machining, and component supply.

Consequently, if a mass market were to develop for battery-powered vehicles, these incumbent industry resources would literally swarm into Tesla's backyard. So doing, they would eventually drive margins to normal levels, sending Elon Musk's razzmatazz up in the same cloud of smoke that has afflicted many of his vehicles.

phrenzy wrote:

I don't see tesla as the next GM and I think the valuation is a little crazy as well but it's not like they are a 1999 dot Com hype company.

Casey research: There is no reason to think that any long-term mass-market player in the auto industry could beat Toyota's sustained performance metrics. In the most recent period, its net profits amounted to 7.5% of sales and it traded at 11x LTM net income. So even if you take as granted the far-fetched notion that in a world of $2-3 per gallon gasoline—which is likely here for a sustained duration—that a mass market will develop for electric battery vehicles, Tesla would still need upwards of $50 billion of sales at Toyota profit rates and valuation multiples to justify last September's peak market cap.

It's dangerously similar to a dotcom hype company.

Last edited by mmm....shiney! (2015-02-27 18:49:45)


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#10 2015-02-27 18:51:12

SpacePete
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

mmm....shiney! wrote:

It's dangerously similar to a dotcom hype company.

Nope. Yet more stuff you have no idea about.


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#11 2015-02-27 19:49:52

Revils
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

I have Tesla shares - I consider them a down payment for the Tesla Model 3.

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#12 2015-02-27 20:39:56

Big A.D.
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

I don't agree with the author that the iPad was "revolutionary" - it was evolutionary. The iPad is just a bigger version of the iPod and iPhone.

That's not to say it isn't a good product, but it very obviously has it's origins in Apple's earlier devices.

Tesla's Model S also isn't revolutionary. It's a car, with four wheels, doors, seatbelts and all the other stuff you'd find in any similar car made by Audi or Porsche or BMW. By all accounts, it's a very good car, but it's still just a car.

It also happens to be electric and Tesla have done a much better job at designing, marketing and distributing it than a lot of other car companies have with the models they produce.


I am the Leafy Sea Dragon.

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#13 2015-02-27 20:47:25

aleks
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Who is Robert Noyce?

Last edited by aleks (2015-02-27 20:47:51)


Only you have your best financial interest at heart, be your own guru

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#14 2015-02-27 20:58:29

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Big A.D. wrote:

Tesla have done a much better job at designing, marketing and distributing it than a lot of other car companies have with the models they produce.

Have they? Source?

Granted that the electric car models provided by the other major car companies are a flop as well.

There is virtually no market for an electric car, if there was, then as the author points out the BMW's, Toyotas, GM's etc would be all over it. It's just a scam.

Last edited by mmm....shiney! (2015-02-27 21:05:29)


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#15 2015-02-27 21:15:52

aleks
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

mmm....shiney! wrote:

There is virtually no market for an electric car, if there was, then as the author points out the BMW's, Toyotas, GM's etc would be all over it. It's just a scam.

no imagination


Only you have your best financial interest at heart, be your own guru

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#16 2015-02-27 21:19:14

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

aleks wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:

There is virtually no market for an electric car, if there was, then as the author points out the BMW's, Toyotas, GM's etc would be all over it. It's just a scam.

no imagination

Are you going to persist with personal attacks or are you going to read the article and refute the claims of the author?  Maybe we could all learn something then.

roll


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#17 2015-02-27 21:26:49

SpacePete
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

aleks wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:

There is virtually no market for an electric car, if there was, then as the author points out the BMW's, Toyotas, GM's etc would be all over it. It's just a scam.

no imagination

You are 100% right. You have to wonder about what sort of anaemic little imagination and petulant bitterness motivates people to come onto internet forums and attack those who seek to do something difficult and innovative.


"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance. It's a $500 subsidised item. They may make a lot of money. But if you actually take a look at the 1.3 billion phones that get sold, I'd prefer to have our software in 60% or 70% or 80% of them, than I would to have 2% or 3%, which is what Apple might get." -- Steve Ballmer, USA Today, 2007

7. "While theoretically and technically television may be feasible, commercially and financially it is an impossibility, a development of which we need waste little time dreaming." -- Lee DeForest, inventor of the vacuum tube, 1926.

"Next Christmas the iPod'll be dead, finished, gone, kaput." -- Sir Alan Sugar, CEO of Amstrad, Daily Telegraph, February 2005


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#18 2015-02-27 21:55:14

aleks
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Shiney lots of inventions or new products had little or no consumer market value at the time they were thought of and created

Is Tesla a scam or will it validate its over valuation? I don't know but history will tell us.

Elon Musk says Tesla will unveil a new kind of battery to power your home. The eccentric CEO said the product will be ready for production in a matter of months

http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/11/80234 … -elon-musk


What did you do when the sun went down? If you're reading this, chances are you switched on a light. But for the 1.3 billion people around the world who lack access to electricity, darkness is a reality.

....

But the challenge is enormous. While some 1.7 billion people have acquired access to electricity globally since 1990, the rate of electrification has been slower than the rate of population growth in the most energy-poor countries. Just to get all of sub-Saharan Africa–a region that generates about as much electricity as Spain–up to levels that comparatively well-off South Africa enjoys would require 330 gigawatts of new capacity. (Power Africa should account for about 10 gigawatts.) The World Bank estimates that it would take $1 trillion a year in global investment to eliminate energy poverty by the year 2030–more than twice what is being spent now. And even that level of investment would guarantee the poorest of the poor only enough electricity to run a floor fan, a mobile phone and two compact fluorescent lights for five hours a day.

http://business.time.com/2013/09/05/bla … ric-light/


Only you have your best financial interest at heart, be your own guru

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#19 2015-02-27 22:07:00

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

aleks wrote:

Shiney lots of inventions or new products had little or no consumer market value at the time they were thought of and created

I agree with you there, and many were only accessible to the rich and as they gained market acceptance, over time, became cheaper and cheaper.

But Tesla's meteoric share price explosion, its vehicle price, its funding sources, it's lack of profit, its publicised commitment to all owners that it will buy back all vehicles after 3 years at the original market price and doubts over its gigafactory have cast doubt over its legitamacy.


Elon Musk says Tesla will unveil a new kind of battery to power your home. The eccentric CEO said the product will be ready for production in a matter of months



I wonder if he'll get $500 million from the taxpayer for this too?  sad


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#20 2015-02-27 23:30:26

aleks
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

This post is brought to you by the hundreds of millions of dollars in government research and crony capitalism that helped to propell advances in semiconductors/transistors and integrated circuits and the development of something called the internet which never had any consumer or market value


Only you have your best financial interest at heart, be your own guru

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#21 2015-02-27 23:30:51

hennypenny
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

I thought this was a great movie, haven't seen the sequel, didn't know it existed until I researched this post.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed … ric_Car%3F

Who Killed the Electric Car? is a 2006 documentary film that explores the creation, limited commercialization, and subsequent destruction of the battery electric vehicle in the United States, specifically the General Motors EV1 of the mid-1990s. The film explores the roles of automobile manufacturers, the oil industry, the US government, the California government, batteries, hydrogen vehicles, and consumers in limiting the development and adoption of this technology.

After a premiere at the Sundance Film Festival, it was released theatrically by Sony Pictures Classics in June, 2006 and then on DVD by Sony Pictures Home Entertainment on November 14, 2006.

During an interview with CBS News, director Chris Paine announced that he had started a new documentary about electric cars with a working title of Who Saved the Electric Car?,[2] later renamed Revenge of the Electric Car, which had its world premiere at the 2011 Tribeca Film Festival on Earth Day, April 22, 2011.[3]
.....

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#22 2015-02-27 23:41:27

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Give us a quick review hennypenny. I haven't watched it but i imagine it would get as many mixed reviews as other "documentaries" such as An Inconvenient Truth or Food, Inc. .


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#23 2015-02-27 23:54:16

spannermonkey
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

lol lol lol
electric cars NOT going to happen
The battery technology just isn't available
Big petrol owns it all if it is viable
The recharge stations are just beginning to be built , but nothing like the service station industry
The big 3 auto makers want let it happen
The battery tech comes from being mined in Africa , sent to china for processing ,as it's so dangerous to process
Than off to Japan to be made into batteries
If you can get 100k's from a VW Golf/ Peugeot's why would people go for an electric suicide box yikes


EXIT STAGE LEFT

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#24 2015-02-27 23:58:13

mmm....shiney!
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From: 昆士蘭
Registered: 2010-11-15
Posts: 15,951
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

spannermonkey wrote:

lol lol lol
electric cars NOT going to happen
The battery technology just isn't available
Big petrol owns it all if it is viable
The recharge stations are just beginning to be built , but nothing like the service station industry
The big 3 auto makers want let it happen
The battery tech comes from being mined in Africa , sent to china for processing ,as it's so dangerous to process
Than off to Japan to be made into batteries
If you can get 100k's from a VW Golf/ Peugeot's why would people go for an electric suicide box yikes

No imagination?  tongue


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#25 2015-02-28 00:23:29

renovator
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From: QLD
Registered: 2011-01-20
Posts: 7,530
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/ … 2O20141226

Says they will be upgrading the battery pack to cover 400 miles per charge thats 643klms  .The R&D is obviously not been a waste I would assume in a few years it will be 1000klms per charge all for a few bucks of electricity .

Someone needs to be doing the R&D Its time the oil cartels run come to an end & used for mainly industrial use not to drive vehicles jmo.


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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