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#51 2015-02-28 07:33:33

SpacePete
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Registered: 2014-03-01
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Some electric vehicle chassis. The last one is Cadillac hybrid chassis I believe.

nNlgic3.jpg

N39SjOg.jpg

Yup, this one's a hybrid: http://www.cadillac.com/elr-electric-hybrid.html

pfRMGN1.jpg

Last edited by SpacePete (2015-02-28 07:35:24)


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#52 2015-02-28 07:46:19

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Newtosilver wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:
Big A.D. wrote:

Tesla have done a much better job at designing, marketing and distributing it than a lot of other car companies have with the models they produce.

Have they? Source?

Granted that the electric car models provided by the other major car companies are a flop as well.

There is virtually no market for an electric car, if there was, then as the author points out the BMW's, Toyotas, GM's etc would be all over it. It's just a scam.


Bloody CSIRO, they are a waste of tax payers money, as well look at the crap they do...... They came up with crap like WIFI.... Who the hell uses it? No one wanted or uses wifi, stupid bloody idea.

Oh actually I am using wifi and it is now used by hundreds of millions of people - my bad.

Meant to quote not to thank.

I know this will be a waste of time, but anyway......

As you brought up the CSIRO you must be at least an interested amateur QANGO expert so I have formulated a few questions that may shed light on why you chose to introduce that organisation into a thread about a publicly listed company. I have a few questions for you:

1. What is the ROI to the taxpayer for the invention of WiFi?
2. The CSIRO is not a publicly listed company, it is government owned so in what way is it possible to compare the taxpayer handout to Tesla and that which the CSIRO receives?
3. Various governments in Australia provide tax relief to purchaser's of EVs, either in the form of concessions granted to the purchaser of luxury cars, or rebates for registrations etc. If the CSIRO's development of WiFi is analogous to Tesla's development of EVs, what forms of tax relief or rebates are in place to promote the use of WiFi technology?
4. Do you think it is appropriate for taxpayer's to foo the bill for enhancements in WiFi technology?
5. Which government provider do you utilise for you WiFi?

Let's be honest, tax concessions for electric vehicles and government subsidies for the development of EVs are nothing more than attempts by politicians to garner votes among the the unusually thick Green Mindset of voters out there. They do more to hamper innovation than enhance.


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#53 2015-02-28 07:53:21

Newtosilver
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

mmm....shiney! wrote:
Newtosilver wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:

Have they? Source?

Granted that the electric car models provided by the other major car companies are a flop as well.

There is virtually no market for an electric car, if there was, then as the author points out the BMW's, Toyotas, GM's etc would be all over it. It's just a scam.


Bloody CSIRO, they are a waste of tax payers money, as well look at the crap they do...... They came up with crap like WIFI.... Who the hell uses it? No one wanted or uses wifi, stupid bloody idea.

Oh actually I am using wifi and it is now used by hundreds of millions of people - my bad.

Meant to quote not to thank.

I know this will be a waste of time, but anyway......

As you brought up the CSIRO you must be at least an interested amateur QANGO expert so I have formulated a few questions that may shed light on why you chose to introduce that organisation into a thread about a publicly listed company. I have a few questions for you:

1. What is the ROI to the taxpayer for the invention of WiFi?
2. The CSIRO is not a publicly listed company, it is government owned so in what way is it possible to compare the taxpayer handout to Tesla and that which the CSIRO receives?
3. Various governments in Australia provide tax relief to purchaser's of EVs, either in the form of concessions granted to the purchaser of luxury cars, or rebates for registrations etc. If the CSIRO's development of WiFi is analogous to Tesla's development of EVs, what forms of tax relief or rebates are in place to promote the use of WiFi technology?
4. Do you think it is appropriate for taxpayer's to foo the bill for enhancements in WiFi technology?
5. Which government provider do you utilise for you WiFi?

Let's be honest, tax concessions for electric vehicles and government subsidies for the development of EVs are nothing more than attempts by politicians to garner votes among the the unusually thick Green Mindset of voters out there. They do more to hamper innovation than enhance.

Lol yep you wasted your time, I am playing clash of clans using wifi.

Last edited by Newtosilver (2015-02-28 07:54:59)


"Never go into a deal believing the other side will treat you fairly. That doesn't mean you screw people just that you expect them to do that to you and then you will never be disappointed."

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#54 2015-02-28 08:03:34

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Newtosilver wrote:

Lol yep you wasted your time, I am playing clash of clans using wifi.

Don't fret too much, I'll get over it quickly.

Just to let you know, one day you will see the light.

You just have to stop playing video games, turn off the AC and eat less ice-cream.

Last edited by mmm....shiney! (2015-02-28 08:03:55)


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#55 2015-02-28 08:28:09

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Big A.D. wrote:

.
Come back 8 years after the Model 3 is released and there will be a hell of a lot of electric cars on the road.

That is nothing more than conjecture. But it depends on what you term as "a hell of a lot of electric cars on the road".

I remember when parents of my friend installed solar hot water heating in the early 80's, it was pretty innovative as far as mainstream technology goes then, some 35 years later and the solar industry still relies on government largesse to survive.  hmm


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#56 2015-02-28 08:56:22

Newtosilver
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

mmm....shiney! wrote:
Newtosilver wrote:

Lol yep you wasted your time, I am playing clash of clans using wifi.

Don't fret too much, I'll get over it quickly.

Just to let you know, one day you will see the light.

You just have to stop playing video games, turn off the AC and eat less ice-cream.


I was in the mall a few weeks ago and a fella handing religious literature told me something like one day I will see the light.......both of you may be waiting awhile smile


"Never go into a deal believing the other side will treat you fairly. That doesn't mean you screw people just that you expect them to do that to you and then you will never be disappointed."

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#57 2015-02-28 11:51:02

petey
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

mmm....shiney! wrote:

There is virtually no market for an electric car, if there was, then as the author points out the BMW's, Toyotas, GM's etc would be all over it. It's just a scam.

Things are different in Australia shiney, we've known this for quite some time.

Come to the "trendy west coast" of North America (California/Oregon/Washington/BC) and tell me there is no market for them. On my street alone there is a Tesla Model S and BMW i3. Seems at least 1/3 high end luxury car I see nowadays is a Model S.

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#58 2015-02-28 19:29:37

Revils
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/22/autos/t … -repayment
Tesla repays federal loan nearly 10 years early

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#59 2015-02-28 19:35:08

SpacePete
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Revils wrote:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/22/autos/t … -repayment
Tesla repays federal loan nearly 10 years early

I'm sure mmm....shiney will be readying his apology now along with his admission of being completely wrong neutral


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#60 2015-02-28 20:23:48

Newtosilver
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

SilverPete wrote:
Revils wrote:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/22/autos/t … -repayment
Tesla repays federal loan nearly 10 years early

I'm sure mmm....shiney will be readying his apology now along with his admission of being completely wrong neutral

No, no, no that can't be correct, the Govt is evil, tax is theft, meat is murder and all that stuff.


"Never go into a deal believing the other side will treat you fairly. That doesn't mean you screw people just that you expect them to do that to you and then you will never be disappointed."

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#61 2015-02-28 20:28:44

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Revils wrote:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/22/autos/t … -repayment
Tesla repays federal loan nearly 10 years early

So what was the ROI for taxpayers then?

Incidentally, the author of the original article I linked raised some very worrying arguments about the future of Tesla, why do you hold shares then revils? And what aspects of the article are incorrect?

Last edited by mmm....shiney! (2015-02-28 20:29:57)


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#62 2015-02-28 20:31:52

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Newtosilver wrote:
SilverPete wrote:
Revils wrote:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/22/autos/t … -repayment
Tesla repays federal loan nearly 10 years early

I'm sure mmm....shiney will be readying his apology now along with his admission of being completely wrong neutral

No, no, no that can't be correct, the Govt is evil, tax is theft, meat is murder and all that stuff.

The government is indeed evil, tax is definitely theft but your meat comment is an indication of insanity.


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#63 2015-02-28 21:23:43

Revils
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

mmm....shiney! wrote:
Revils wrote:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/22/autos/t … -repayment
Tesla repays federal loan nearly 10 years early

So what was the ROI for taxpayers then?

Incidentally, the author of the original article I linked raised some very worrying arguments about the future of Tesla, why do you hold shares then revils? And what aspects of the article are incorrect?

The article calls it an 'imaginary gigafactory in Nevada' - there's nothing imaginary about it. I own shares because I believe the future will be self-driving electric vehicles and Tesla is helping make this possible. I want to generate my own electricity from the Sun and store it in batteries and Tesla is helping make this possible. I've been to cities with heavy smog and I know engine and factory pollution needs an overhaul.
I also believe meat is murder but don't want to get into that here.

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#64 2015-02-28 21:26:33

Newtosilver
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

mmm....shiney! wrote:
Newtosilver wrote:
SilverPete wrote:

I'm sure mmm....shiney will be readying his apology now along with his admission of being completely wrong neutral

No, no, no that can't be correct, the Govt is evil, tax is theft, meat is murder and all that stuff.

The government is indeed evil, tax is definitely theft but your meat comment is an indication of insanity.


Tax is theft is the same type of statement as meat is murder, it sounds very catchy and at first it gets people in but when you look at it and think about it you realise it is stupidity.


"Never go into a deal believing the other side will treat you fairly. That doesn't mean you screw people just that you expect them to do that to you and then you will never be disappointed."

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#65 2015-02-28 21:31:22

Newtosilver
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

mmm....shiney! wrote:
Revils wrote:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/22/autos/t … -repayment
Tesla repays federal loan nearly 10 years early

So what was the ROI for taxpayers then?

Incidentally, the author of the original article I linked raised some very worrying arguments about the future of Tesla, why do you hold shares then revils? And what aspects of the article are incorrect?

Return of investment for the taxpayer? When cars were first introduced there were no roads. The Govt built roads, where is the ROI for the taxpayer with roads? May sound stupid but taxpayers drive on those roads and the children of past taxpayers drive on those roads, may not suit your agenda but we live in a society where people contribute for a common good.

In the future people (taxpayers) will benefit from the technology that has been developed and is being developed now. It is called looking forward and developing something for the future.


"Never go into a deal believing the other side will treat you fairly. That doesn't mean you screw people just that you expect them to do that to you and then you will never be disappointed."

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#66 2015-02-28 21:31:43

renovator
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From: QLD
Registered: 2011-01-20
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Newtosilver wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:
Newtosilver wrote:

No, no, no that can't be correct, the Govt is evil, tax is theft, meat is murder and all that stuff.

The government is indeed evil, tax is definitely theft but your meat comment is an indication of insanity.


Tax is theft is the same type of statement as meat is murder, it sounds very catchy and at first it gets people in but when you look at it and think about it you realise it is stupidity.

In reality both are correct .
I dont think i would like a live animal brought to the table & have to bite its windpipe to despatch it & you have zero choice with the tax dept


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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#67 2015-02-28 21:35:57

Newtosilver
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

renovator wrote:
Newtosilver wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:

The government is indeed evil, tax is definitely theft but your meat comment is an indication of insanity.


Tax is theft is the same type of statement as meat is murder, it sounds very catchy and at first it gets people in but when you look at it and think about it you realise it is stupidity.

In reality both are correct .
I dont think i would like a live animal brought to the table & have to bite its windpipe to despatch it & you have zero choice with the tax dept


"1. the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another."

Unless you are eating a person it is not murder when you actually look at the definition of the word murder, animals are not human beings smile

Crocodiles don't murder fish.


"Never go into a deal believing the other side will treat you fairly. That doesn't mean you screw people just that you expect them to do that to you and then you will never be disappointed."

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#68 2015-02-28 21:43:10

goldpelican
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Meat is protein among other things. Meat is murder? Well prosecute every carnivore and omnivore on the planet as murderers. Start with Siberian Tigers - not many of those left, shouldn't be hard to get a 100% prosecution rate. Nothing special about humans that takes us out of the natural order. Just ask any surfer in WA. I *have* met my meat.

Anyway if this weather clears I'll be watching a Tesla SpaceX launch from the back yard tomorrow night - I'm on the opposite coast to Canaveral but you can see them take off from here. Private space launch (although probably carrying a government contract payload - I forget what this one is). As I understand it there's a bit of tech swapping between the two companies.


My posts on Silver Stackers are either personal opinion or acting in the capacity of site administrator. Opinions offered do not constitute professional or financial advice.

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#69 2015-02-28 21:44:39

Revils
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Definitions are subject to time - the definitions of rape have changed and so to will the definitions of murder. Murder/rape definitions also vary in the current time depending on country.

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#70 2015-02-28 21:47:47

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Newtosilver wrote:

Return of investment for the taxpayer? When cars were first introduced there were no roads. The Govt built roads, where is the ROI for the taxpayer with roads? May sound stupid but taxpayers drive on those roads and the children of past taxpayers drive on those roads, may not suit your agenda but we live in a society where people contribute for a common good.

In the future people (taxpayers) will benefit from the technology that has been developed and is being developed now. It is called looking forward and developing something for the future.

TSLA were given a loan using taxpayer's money, taxpayers deserve a ROI for that loan because it could have been put to other uses.

There is no guarantee that taxpayers will benefit at all from any of the technologies Musk is developing, given this the ROI should have been well above the market rate, especially when factoring in the extremely high rates of failures of such companies.

If anyone is actually interested in reading a rational appraisal of TSLA, as opposed to those who just see "oooooh it's a shiny broom broom", seekingalpha has a number of balanced articles, but you have to register with them to view them.

A short quote from seekingalpha regarding TSLA's home battery written this month:

Musk's other companies, including SolarCity, are poised to benefit from a transition to independence from utilities, but it seems that Tesla will not. The promise of a Tesla Model S home battery may hold sway over investors, but is unlikely to hold sway over consumers who can purchase less expensive alternatives from other car companies and affordable power storage system companies.

And another about the auto company itself written last month:

In three years since the start of 2012, TSLA has increased by 700%. The big money has already been made on this stock as it successfully debuted the Model S. I believe 2015 will be a year of challenges for the company as it looks to expand its production, introduce new vehicles and sell to new markets. The stock price will likely pull back as investors realize Tesla's growth will not be nearly as easy to achieve as they fantasize. If the company can demonstrate it can handle its growing pains, the stock will become a worthwhile investment once it's more reasonably priced.

Basically, cheaper alternatives exist, and the share price is too high.

Which begs the question then, why did Obama risk taxpayer's $$ in the first place. Answer: gain green votes in the process of financing his capitalist crony mates.


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#71 2015-02-28 21:50:02

Revils
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

goldpelican wrote:

Meat is protein among other things. Meat is murder? Well prosecute every carnivore and omnivore on the planet as murderers. Start with Siberian Tigers - not many of those left, shouldn't be hard to get a 100% prosecution rate. Nothing special about humans that takes us out of the natural order. Just ask any surfer in WA. I *have* met my meat.

Anyway if this weather clears I'll be watching a Tesla SpaceX launch from the back yard tomorrow night - I'm on the opposite coast to Canaveral but you can see them take off from here. Private space launch (although probably carrying a government contract payload - I forget what this one is). As I understand it there's a bit of tech swapping between the two companies.

Your logic would mean that you shouldn't prosecute a human for killing an animal just for the pleasure of it. I could go around killing ibis/bush turkeys/kookaburras etc. but I would be arrested if I did this.
Animals kill other animals for pleasure all the time.
For us to make it legal we just choose the easiest to mass breed/slaughter then kill it for pleasure then eat it.

Tigers/crocodiles don't have the option/capacity to choose to eat vegetables. Most humans have the option.

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#72 2015-02-28 21:53:00

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Newtosilver wrote:

Tax is theft is the same type of statement as meat is murder, it sounds very catchy and at first it gets people in but when you look at it and think about it you realise it is stupidity.

Not at all. There are about about a million posts on this forum about taxation and it's highly likely you've not read any of them so you don't know what you are talking about.

Last edited by mmm....shiney! (2015-02-28 22:03:29)


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#73 2015-02-28 21:55:05

goldpelican
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Lay off the hand sanitiser, you're killing millions.


My posts on Silver Stackers are either personal opinion or acting in the capacity of site administrator. Opinions offered do not constitute professional or financial advice.

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#74 2015-02-28 21:59:52

goldpelican
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Revils wrote:
goldpelican wrote:

Meat is protein among other things. Meat is murder? Well prosecute every carnivore and omnivore on the planet as murderers. Start with Siberian Tigers - not many of those left, shouldn't be hard to get a 100% prosecution rate. Nothing special about humans that takes us out of the natural order. Just ask any surfer in WA. I *have* met my meat.

Anyway if this weather clears I'll be watching a Tesla SpaceX launch from the back yard tomorrow night - I'm on the opposite coast to Canaveral but you can see them take off from here. Private space launch (although probably carrying a government contract payload - I forget what this one is). As I understand it there's a bit of tech swapping between the two companies.

Your logic would mean that you shouldn't prosecute a human for killing an animal just for the pleasure of it. I could go around killing ibis/bush turkeys/kookaburras etc. but I would be arrested if I did this.
Animals kill other animals for pleasure all the time.
For us to make it legal we just choose the easiest to mass breed/slaughter then kill it for pleasure then eat it.

Tigers/crocodiles don't have the option/capacity to choose to eat vegetables. Most humans have the option.

You're casting aspersions at my logic.

Do I support cricketers going on safari and killing elephants for a Facebook photo? No. Do I support "scientific" whaling (even though it's ultimately for consumption? Which is flawed logic in itself unless you count my view that I believe whaling is unsustainable) No.

Do I support my genetic predisposition to consuming protein from the flesh of other animals, and participating in the harvest of such for those who choose to, whether it be crayfish out of the dam, fishing for bream or shooting rabbits/deer/<insert sustainable game meat of choice here>? You betcha.

I have a saying - "respect the cow". If there's meat on your plate you'd bloody well better eat it all, and not be afraid to buying something made of leather.


My posts on Silver Stackers are either personal opinion or acting in the capacity of site administrator. Opinions offered do not constitute professional or financial advice.

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#75 2015-02-28 22:00:14

renovator
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From: QLD
Registered: 2011-01-20
Posts: 7,530
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

goldpelican wrote:

Meat is protein among other things. Meat is murder? Well prosecute every carnivore and omnivore on the planet as murderers. Start with Siberian Tigers - not many of those left, shouldn't be hard to get a 100% prosecution rate. Nothing special about humans that takes us out of the natural order. Just ask any surfer in WA. I *have* met my meat.

Anyway if this weather clears I'll be watching a Tesla SpaceX launch from the back yard tomorrow night - I'm on the opposite coast to Canaveral but you can see them take off from here. Private space launch (although probably carrying a government contract payload - I forget what this one is). As I understand it there's a bit of tech swapping between the two companies.

Watching the launch would be cool are you close enough to hear it ? I can imagine the noise could be heard for miles


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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