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#26 2015-02-28 00:25:59

spannermonkey
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

And to all the "so called experts"
How many of you have spent nearly 30 years in the auto industry ?
What the turtle would you know yikes
Don't you think that industry people would own such vehicles ?
They don't wink
They build/drive hot rod's & race cars on weekends


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#27 2015-02-28 00:27:28

spannermonkey
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

renovator wrote:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/ … 2O20141226

Says they will be upgrading the battery pack to cover 400 miles per charge thats 643klms  .The R&D is obviously not been a waste I would assume in a few years it will be 1000klms per charge all for a few bucks of electricity .

Someone needs to be doing the R&D Its time the oil cartels run come to an end & used for mainly industrial use not to drive vehicles jmo.

Until big oil lets go of some the the patients they hold , it will be a long time coming


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#28 2015-02-28 00:29:06

SpacePete
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

renovator wrote:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/ … 2O20141226

Says they will be upgrading the battery pack to cover 400 miles per charge thats 643klms  .The R&D is obviously not been a waste I would assume in a few years it will be 1000klms per charge all for a few bucks of electricity .

Someone needs to be doing the R&D Its time the oil cartels run come to an end & used for mainly industrial use not to drive vehicles jmo.

The battery technology will also be used in homes:

The same lithium-ion battery technology that powers Tesla's electric vehicles will be used to develop a battery for the home, according to a statement by CEO Elon Musk during a recent conference call with analysts. The batteries would be used by homes and businesses to store excess energy generated from solar panels during the day, and drawn from at night when panels sit idle.

And this looks like it might start a competitive technology war, hopefully leading to rapid advancement of even better batteries. Positive feedback with Tesla as the catalyst:

Tesla would face plenty of competition for their batteries, with names like Bosch, GE and Samsung involved. Honda has unveiled a demonstration smart home that features a rechargeable home battery, along with an electric vehicle, solar panels and geothermal heat pump, and is driven by an energy management system.

http://www.gizmag.com/tesla-home-battery/36276/


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#29 2015-02-28 00:30:30

SpacePete
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

spannermonkey wrote:
renovator wrote:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/ … 2O20141226

Says they will be upgrading the battery pack to cover 400 miles per charge thats 643klms  .The R&D is obviously not been a waste I would assume in a few years it will be 1000klms per charge all for a few bucks of electricity .

Someone needs to be doing the R&D Its time the oil cartels run come to an end & used for mainly industrial use not to drive vehicles jmo.

Until big oil lets go of some the the patients they hold , it will be a long time coming


Yeah, that could be the killer. They may need to find feasible alternatives, assuming it is even feasible and they can survive a flood of spurious IP lawsuits.


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#30 2015-02-28 00:31:45

goldpelican
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

I dunno, outside of Australia I'm starting to see electric charging stations pop up all over the place. There's a supercharger station not far from where I live here in Florida. Regularly see some of the four Tesla Model S driving around town where I live (small town mentality - not hard to recognise the same cars on the road here). Have a mate in California with a Nissan Leaf. BMW electric cars were on offer as regular rentals in Germany. Secondary market demand for Teslas is ridiculously strong. The P85D is an engineering marvel.

Still not selling my horse - this automobile craze will wear off.


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#31 2015-02-28 00:34:22

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Still no posts taking to task the author's claims that Tesla is a scam.


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#32 2015-02-28 00:34:50

spannermonkey
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

SilverPete wrote:
spannermonkey wrote:
renovator wrote:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/ … 2O20141226

Says they will be upgrading the battery pack to cover 400 miles per charge thats 643klms  .The R&D is obviously not been a waste I would assume in a few years it will be 1000klms per charge all for a few bucks of electricity .

Someone needs to be doing the R&D Its time the oil cartels run come to an end & used for mainly industrial use not to drive vehicles jmo.

Until big oil lets go of some the the patients they hold , it will be a long time coming


Yeah, that could be the killer. They may need to find feasible alternatives, assuming it is even feasible and they can survive a flood of spurious IP lawsuits.

Big oil = US war machine
Do you really think any law suit will hold up in court


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#33 2015-02-28 00:39:06

SpacePete
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

spannermonkey wrote:
SilverPete wrote:
spannermonkey wrote:

Until big oil lets go of some the the patients they hold , it will be a long time coming


Yeah, that could be the killer. They may need to find feasible alternatives, assuming it is even feasible and they can survive a flood of spurious IP lawsuits.

Big oil = US war machine
Do you really think any law suit will hold up in court

I mean... big oil patents used as a weapon against innovative startup technologies. They may not ultimately hold up in court, but the cost of lawyers and constant legal fights for a smaller companies to defend themselves may drain their financial reserves.


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#34 2015-02-28 00:49:04

renovator
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

spannermonkey wrote:
renovator wrote:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/ … 2O20141226

Says they will be upgrading the battery pack to cover 400 miles per charge thats 643klms  .The R&D is obviously not been a waste I would assume in a few years it will be 1000klms per charge all for a few bucks of electricity .

Someone needs to be doing the R&D Its time the oil cartels run come to an end & used for mainly industrial use not to drive vehicles jmo.

Until big oil lets go of some the the patients they hold , it will be a long time coming

I agree i dont think it will be in my lifetime.

What i mean is the sheer amount of revenue coming from the sale of petroleum/diesel for fuel They will still be making a fortune on petrochemicals. Im sure big oil will go down kicking & screaming to the bitter end to protect their business ...but there will come a time when public opinion will change & i think its coming in the next decade when the EV market will ramp up .

The cost of vehicles and mileage per charge has been their achilles heel & both of those problems are getting to the point where old arguements will be worthless & the average punter will jump onboard.

It takes decades for people to come around to new technology or even a new country producing it as was seen when the japanese started to manufacture cars/bikes It was all smoke & mirrors until people actually discovered they were better ....all in time ..but it will happen .

The figures tesla is getting now were unheard of a few years ago  .As soon as the technology is perfected manufacturers will get in & start building mass produced little runaround EV's .

The mileage is now comparable to petrol cars & i think is the tipping point . The charge rate is going to be the next hill to climb .A quick google says its around 50 miles per charging hour  .

As for charging stations with the same mileage as petrol cars you would rarely need a charging station & would do it at home . Only needing charging stations on long trips .....I say Bring on the alternative to petroleum  although i will miss the sound of a finely tuned gas engine at full noise .


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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#35 2015-02-28 00:54:26

renovator
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

mmm....shiney! wrote:

Still no posts taking to task the author's claims that Tesla is a scam.

Let it go shiney ....let it go  lol


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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#36 2015-02-28 00:59:35

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

renovator wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:

Still no posts taking to task the author's claims that Tesla is a scam.

Let it go shiney ....let it go  lol

It's the topic reno. wink

There's a lot of posts defending Tesla, the electric car industry, innovation, the common good blah blah blah blah, blaming "big oil", dodgy politicians but none of them attempt to discredit the author's arguments that it is actually Tesla which is dodgy, it is Wall street scamming and it is dodgy politicians giving away taxpayer money.  Those points seem to be lost by those who believe in the conspiracies of GM and Caltex et al.

Last edited by mmm....shiney! (2015-02-28 01:04:26)


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#37 2015-02-28 01:04:54

spannermonkey
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Reno , would you own this ? lol
You trend setter tongue
The glass body for me is a no no
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpqvpqklyk0


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#38 2015-02-28 01:06:12

smk762
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

With enough litigious action, Big Oil will eventually secure the patents for future energy tech via acquisition of those who have the IP (but lack the capital) to threaten the dominance of petrol. Only when they hold the cards to maintain market share will we see widespread migration to the new technologies.

Looking forward, battery based tech is also reliant on resources that are finite, and also have negative environmental potential in manufacturing and disposal.

Solar is inadequate and unreliable without battery storage. The only true future tech that allows being unconstrained by resource scarcity and unstained by pollution would need to draw on ambient sources such as the Earths magnetic field. Unfortunately we are  unlikely to see it's R&D funded as there is no corporate ROI on a product without metered usage, and the concept is far beyond the imagination of modern science and public comprehension.

I'd be happy to give it a crack if anyone's got a spare 500 mil though.


Note: No view / opinion I express is to be construed in any way as representative of entities which I may be associated with, including but not limited to employers, clubs, or charitable organisations. All commentary is made as a private citizen, regardless of the method of creative expression, and in accordance with personal integrity and my perception of the public interest. This disclaimer is to be applied perpetually and retroactively.Hi ASIO roll

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#39 2015-02-28 01:42:34

renovator
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

mmm....shiney! wrote:
renovator wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:

Still no posts taking to task the author's claims that Tesla is a scam.

Let it go shiney ....let it go  lol

It's the topic reno. wink

There's a lot of posts defending Tesla, the electric car industry, innovation, the common good blah blah blah blah, blaming "big oil", dodgy politicians but none of them attempt to discredit the author's arguments that it is actually Tesla which is dodgy, it is Wall street scamming and it is dodgy politicians giving away taxpayer money.  Those points seem to be lost by those who believe in the conspiracies of GM and Caltex et al.

i think you have mistaken me for someone who gives a shit  lol tongue:


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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#40 2015-02-28 01:44:29

renovator
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

mmm....shiney! wrote:
renovator wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:

Still no posts taking to task the author's claims that Tesla is a scam.

Let it go shiney ....let it go  lol

It's the topic reno. wink

There's a lot of posts defending Tesla, the electric car industry, innovation, the common good blah blah blah blah, blaming "big oil", dodgy politicians but none of them attempt to discredit the author's arguments that it is actually Tesla which is dodgy, it is Wall street scamming and it is dodgy politicians giving away taxpayer money.  Those points seem to be lost by those who believe in the conspiracies of GM and Caltex et al.

i think you have mistaken me for someone who gives a shit  lol tongue:


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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#41 2015-02-28 01:50:30

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

I know your someone who can't back up his opinion with hard facts or data. cool

Come on, you said they produce the best EV's, surely you can come to their defence then when they are accused of being nothing more than a Wall Street scam.


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#42 2015-02-28 02:00:56

renovator
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

mmm....shiney! wrote:

I know your someone who can't back up his opinion with hard facts or data. cool

Come on, you said they produce the best EV's, surely you can come to their defence then when they are accused of being nothing more than a Wall Street scam.

Well at least you got the first sentence right  lol


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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#43 2015-02-28 02:04:38

renovator
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

spannermonkey wrote:

Reno , would you own this ? lol
You trend setter tongue
The glass body for me is a no no
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpqvpqklyk0

Yep i would even drive it  !!:p:
Trend setter ?  hah ! you know i love useless antique pieces of garden art that guzzle fuel like a fat kid  with a coke  .
I just want gas cars to become obsolete so my stable is worth more


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#44 2015-02-28 05:53:40

hennypenny
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

In a decade or two, supercars will all be electric.

7 seater family car vs Ferrari:

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#45 2015-02-28 05:57:10

Newtosilver
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

mmm....shiney! wrote:
Big A.D. wrote:

Tesla have done a much better job at designing, marketing and distributing it than a lot of other car companies have with the models they produce.

Have they? Source?

Granted that the electric car models provided by the other major car companies are a flop as well.

There is virtually no market for an electric car, if there was, then as the author points out the BMW's, Toyotas, GM's etc would be all over it. It's just a scam.


Bloody CSIRO, they are a waste of tax payers money, as well look at the crap they do...... They came up with crap like WIFI.... Who the hell uses it? No one wanted or uses wifi, stupid bloody idea.

Oh actually I am using wifi and it is now used by hundreds of millions of people - my bad.


"Never go into a deal believing the other side will treat you fairly. That doesn't mean you screw people just that you expect them to do that to you and then you will never be disappointed."

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#46 2015-02-28 05:58:44

SpacePete
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

hennypenny wrote:

In a decade or two, supercars will all be electric.

Before then I'd say. Extreme high-performance electric cars will be prestige vehicles.


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#47 2015-02-28 06:01:34

spannermonkey
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

SilverPete wrote:
hennypenny wrote:

In a decade or two, supercars will all be electric.

Before then I'd say. Extreme high-performance electric cars will be prestige vehicles.

giphy3_zps6205a919.gif~original


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#48 2015-02-28 06:02:04

SpacePete
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Newtosilver wrote:
durp durp durp wrote:

There is virtually no market for an electric car, if there was, then as the author points out the BMW's, Toyotas, GM's etc would be all over it. It's just a scam.

Bloody CSIRO, they are a waste of tax payers money, as well look at the crap they do...... They came up with crap like WIFI.... Who the hell uses it? No one wanted or uses wifi, stupid bloody idea.

Oh actually I am using wifi and it is now used by hundreds of millions of people - my bad.

Nah, you've got it wrong. WiFi and other technologies are just a dirty socialist scam designed to make right-wing nutters feel stupid. lol


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#49 2015-02-28 06:09:59

Newtosilver
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Going back years ago I read a really old article where they were saying motor vehicles would never replace the horse and buggy. You could not buy kerosine apart from a few stores, there were no roads, they were very unreliable, the tyres kept getting flats and you needed to carry several spares, the ride was no where near as good as a horse and buggy. Motor vehicles were to expensive, people on a wage could not afford them..... Who would pay for all the roads to be built?

Basically this whole automobile thing is not going to take off and they are a plaything for eccentric people with to much money..... Oh and the big one they scare horses and are just not popular with a lot of the general public.

How did that whole thing work out for the horse and buggy?


"Never go into a deal believing the other side will treat you fairly. That doesn't mean you screw people just that you expect them to do that to you and then you will never be disappointed."

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#50 2015-02-28 06:47:40

Big A.D.
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Re: Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

mmm....shiney! wrote:

Still no posts taking to task the author's claims that Tesla is a scam.

Its a company in the early, capital intensive phase of it's life.

It's not like Elon Musk is tinkering away building one car at a time in his garage at home. It's a big operation. Building cars is something people take seriously on a nation state level (witness our own navel-gazing about our auto industry) and at the moment there literally isn't enough high quality battery manufacturing capacity for Tesla to grow much bigger than they are now. So they're spending a truckload of money building the Gigafactory, and they're able to borrow it at rock-bottom interest rates. Hey, at least they're doing something productive with their little slice of QE.

Personally I think Tesla's current valuation looks high, but to be fair they did have a very sensible production strategy: build expensive super-cars and let the rich early adopters pay a chunk of the R&D. That knowledge and tech flowed through to the Model S which the wealthy middle class are buying which means they can practice scaling up production and any delays make the product even more desirable because supply is limited. Next is the Model X (comparable to the S) and then the Model 3 which will be about US$35k and using batteries being pumped out en mass by the Gigafactory.

The Model 3 is where electric cars go mainstream, in the same way that the iPhone was ZOMG-ridiculous-rich-people-toy when it was released and now every other person on the street has one or something comparable. That was only, what 8 years ago? Come back 8 years after the Model 3 is released and there will be a hell of a lot of electric cars on the road.

Given that the author of the article was a politician from Michigan during the period that that American car makers lost their way, I think the article may be less about Tesla being a scam and more about his own career. If I wanted to find someone who knew about how to foster a successful auto industry, I wouldn't necessarily ask anyone who had influence in Michigan in the 80s.


I am the Leafy Sea Dragon.

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