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  • » Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

#51 2014-09-14 06:10:21

smk762
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From: Westralia
Registered: 2014-09-04
Posts: 1,398
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

hawkeye wrote:

The thing that I find funny about people in the public sector is that they pay taxes.  As if somehow they are helping to pay for themselves.

It's kind of like Apple charging their customers twice as much and then giving half of it back and saying "look how generous we are to our customers".

Yeah, but if we didn't there would be outrage. Strangely no-one blinks twice at the tax free pensions for judges politicians.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa … 6613680013

hawkeye wrote:

Depends in which part of the public sector you are in I guess.  The reality is though, taken as a whole, you're way too expensive.

I don't disagree, and Ron Swanson is a real man. All depends on how much you benefit from the funded services. If you are relatively self sufficient, you get a raw deal come tax time. If you need to drive on roads, visit national parks, be tended to by nurses or have your house saved from fire, then maybe it's worth it. If you want us to be involved in war in the middle east, stopping the boats and surveillance at home, you're getting your money's worth.


Note: No view / opinion I express is to be construed in any way as representative of entities which I may be associated with, including but not limited to employers, clubs, or charitable organisations. All commentary is made as a private citizen, regardless of the method of creative expression, and in accordance with personal integrity and my perception of the public interest. This disclaimer is to be applied perpetually and retroactively.Hi ASIO roll

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#52 2014-09-14 06:17:58

renovator
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From: QLD
Registered: 2011-01-20
Posts: 7,531
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

smk762 wrote:
hawkeye wrote:

The thing that I find funny about people in the public sector is that they pay taxes.  As if somehow they are helping to pay for themselves.

It's kind of like Apple charging their customers twice as much and then giving half of it back and saying "look how generous we are to our customers".

Yeah, but if we didn't there would be outrage. Strangely no-one blinks twice at the tax free pensions for judges politicians.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa … 6613680013

hawkeye wrote:

Depends in which part of the public sector you are in I guess.  The reality is though, taken as a whole, you're way too expensive.

I don't disagree, and Ron Swanson is a real man. All depends on how much you benefit from the funded services. If you are relatively self sufficient, you get a raw deal come tax time. If you need to drive on roads, visit national parks, be tended to by nurses or have your house saved from fire, then maybe it's worth it. If you want us to be involved in war in the middle east, stopping the boats and surveillance at home, you're getting your money's worth.

I only want half of that will you take a 50% pay cut  ?  tongue:


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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#53 2014-09-14 06:24:45

willrocks
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

hawkeye wrote:

The thing that I find funny about people in the public sector is that they pay taxes.  As if somehow they are helping to pay for themselves.

It's kind of like Apple charging their customers twice as much and then giving half of it back and saying "look how generous we are to our customers".

It's a psychological tactic to make them feel like they're "Doing the right thing".


"You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

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#54 2014-09-14 06:36:19

smk762
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From: Westralia
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

renovator wrote:

I only want half of that will you take a 50% pay cut  ?  tongue:

Give me tax free pay/pension and it's a deal.


Note: No view / opinion I express is to be construed in any way as representative of entities which I may be associated with, including but not limited to employers, clubs, or charitable organisations. All commentary is made as a private citizen, regardless of the method of creative expression, and in accordance with personal integrity and my perception of the public interest. This disclaimer is to be applied perpetually and retroactively.Hi ASIO roll

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#55 2014-09-14 06:37:53

SpacePete
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

JulieW wrote:

This:

THE federal government has decided to exempt state judges and politicians from its planned tax on defined-benefit pensions in order to avoid the risk of a constitutional challenge.

The government is also considering legal advice on whether the risk of a challenge justifies extending the exemption to the federal judiciary.

So why not a constitutional challenge from the rest of the poor bunnies hit with the planned tax?

NR where is this petition for a referendum you spoke about?

I couldn't read the article. Why would there be a constitutional challenge if judges and politicians were subject to the same taxes as everyone else?


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#56 2014-09-14 09:51:53

hawkeye
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

smk762 wrote:

Yeah, but if we didn't there would be outrage. Strangely no-one blinks twice at the tax free pensions for judges politicians.

But the reality is, let's say we pay you 100K and you pay 50K in income taxes (I'm using round numbers for convenience) or we pay you 50K and you aren't taxed.   That's ultimately the same amount of money for the taxpayers. 

The former just implies that public sector workers are taxpayers but, in reality, is blatantly false.  Don't you think it would be better to have clarity rather than this charade?

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#57 2014-09-14 10:52:52

smk762
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From: Westralia
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

If the system was transparent with sound logic to back up the decision, either if fine. You could argue in favor of the a reduced workload of the ATO in processing returns, and therefor even less public servants on the payroll.

TBH, I'm in favor of zero income tax all round, with varying rates of GST depending on the good or service. Social essentials would be exempt (food, education, healthcare, rent, fuel, phone, electricity, internet). The highest rate would be on newly legalised drugs, with strict QA to medicinal standards imposed, shifting the budget expense of policing instead towards science.


Note: No view / opinion I express is to be construed in any way as representative of entities which I may be associated with, including but not limited to employers, clubs, or charitable organisations. All commentary is made as a private citizen, regardless of the method of creative expression, and in accordance with personal integrity and my perception of the public interest. This disclaimer is to be applied perpetually and retroactively.Hi ASIO roll

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#58 2014-09-14 14:28:31

col0016
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From: Australia, Melbourne
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

I love that the government creates laws they believe to be unconstitutional and then exempts themselves and their mates from it lol

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#59 2014-09-14 17:04:57

Revils
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From: Australia
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

If public servants didn't pay income tax, how would you work out how much HECS to deduct or second income etc. If there are two public servants on 75,000 doesn't mean they're in the same tax bracket at the end of the financial year. How would work out real estate income losses?

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#60 2014-09-14 19:02:29

willrocks
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

Revils wrote:

If public servants didn't pay income tax, how would you work out how much HECS to deduct or second income etc. If there are two public servants on 75,000 doesn't mean they're in the same tax bracket at the end of the financial year. How would work out real estate income losses?

Easy. Eliminate HECS and make everyone pay for their own education.


"You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

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#61 2014-09-14 19:24:48

smk762
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From: Westralia
Registered: 2014-09-04
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

willrocks wrote:
Revils wrote:

If public servants didn't pay income tax, how would you work out how much HECS to deduct or second income etc. If there are two public servants on 75,000 doesn't mean they're in the same tax bracket at the end of the financial year. How would work out real estate income losses?

Easy. Eliminate HECS and make everyone pay for their own education.

Or make it free like it was better yet, make fees tied to grades to disincentivise slack students. HD students pay minimal, failures pay through the nose.


Note: No view / opinion I express is to be construed in any way as representative of entities which I may be associated with, including but not limited to employers, clubs, or charitable organisations. All commentary is made as a private citizen, regardless of the method of creative expression, and in accordance with personal integrity and my perception of the public interest. This disclaimer is to be applied perpetually and retroactively.Hi ASIO roll

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#62 2014-09-14 19:31:33

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

There is no such thing as free education. Someone has to pay for it.


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#63 2014-09-14 19:38:22

SpacePete
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

mmm....shiney! wrote:

There is no such thing as free education. Someone has to pay for it.

Ultimately nothing is free.

TANSTAAFL - There ain't no such thing as a free lunch

TANSTAAFL indicates an acknowledgement that in reality a person or a society cannot get "something for nothing". Even if something appears to be free, there is always a cost to the person or to society as a whole, although that may be a hidden cost or an externality. For example, as Heinlein has one of his characters point out, a bar offering a free lunch will likely charge more for its drinks.


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#64 2014-09-14 19:52:00

SpacePete
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

smk762 wrote:

Or make it free like it was better yet, make fees tied to grades to disincentivise slack students. HD students pay minimal, failures pay through the nose.

Incentive based fees is an interesting proposal.

There are a number of pros and cons around free education. But the following is an interesting conjecture based on OECD data:

While this data shows it is possible for a government to provide free, quality, mass higher education, it also suggests higher rates of participation are only possible with a co-contribution from the student to offset the cost of providing more places. In Australia's case the government could be contributing more and the student less.

The future of free higher education in Australia

A return to free higher education would come at great cost, as it would involve dismantling the immense structure and economy of HECS-HELP, which have been in place for a quarter of a century. In contrast, Germany has managed to return to free education in great part because tuition fees were relatively low (about $1,500) and introduced only eight years ago.

For Australia, abolishing HECS would involve the same scale operations as abolishing the GST. And making it free might even increase inequality, if the supply of university places was limited in order to pay for it. Free higher education might be desirable but fair and equitable higher education is essential.
https://theconversation.com/should-we-f … tion-23970


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#65 2014-09-14 21:50:14

hawkeye
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From: Perth, Australia
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

Revils wrote:

If public servants didn't pay income tax, how would you work out how much HECS to deduct or second income etc. If there are two public servants on 75,000 doesn't mean they're in the same tax bracket at the end of the financial year. How would work out real estate income losses?

How can you claim losses when you never paid tax in the first place?   All that happens currently is that if a public servant makes real estate losses they get to receive more taxpayer money than they otherwise would have.   Which is ridiculous when you think about it.  Currently, if you have 2 public servants on the same salary but one has RE investments and the other doesn't then the one with RE losses effectively gets paid more than the one who doesn't.   Sounds like a scam to me.

You losses in RE should simply be losses.  Accept your bad luck or poor decision making.  Whichever is applicable.

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#66 2014-09-15 01:09:08

smk762
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From: Westralia
Registered: 2014-09-04
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

To simplify the theoretical, lets assume that only the income derived from working in the public service is declared as tax free. They'll still pay GST, CGT etc. Additional income would be taxed according to the rate based on total income (i.e. no tax free threshold). Any losses would be proportioned in line with the proportion of additional vs total income .

Eg. 40k tax free via public service employment.
20k additional income from personal services etc. taxed at 32.5% (equivalent to $37,001 – $80,000 bracket)
15k RE losses

Additional income is 1/3 of total, so you only get to claim 5k worth of the losses.

Alternatively, I agree losses should be losses across the board to all taxpayers, punishment for bad investment. Those who don't invest shouldn't be liable for paying for the failed speculative greed of those who do.


Note: No view / opinion I express is to be construed in any way as representative of entities which I may be associated with, including but not limited to employers, clubs, or charitable organisations. All commentary is made as a private citizen, regardless of the method of creative expression, and in accordance with personal integrity and my perception of the public interest. This disclaimer is to be applied perpetually and retroactively.Hi ASIO roll

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#67 2014-09-15 01:53:06

mmm....shiney!
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

smk762 wrote:

Those who don't invest shouldn't be liable for paying for the failed speculative greed of those who do.

Neither should those who don't utilise a service be liable for it's funding. wink


The woolgrower's target shall be the good thriving of his flock and its pastures, and so of himself and those whose livelihoods depend on his enterprise.
"The Woolgrower's Companion", 1906.

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#68 2014-09-15 03:04:50

smk762
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

mmm....shiney! wrote:
smk762 wrote:

Those who don't invest shouldn't be liable for paying for the failed speculative greed of those who do.

Neither should those who don't utilise a service be liable for it's funding. wink

Agreed. In a perfect world...

Alternatively, only those that voted in the current government should pay tax.


Note: No view / opinion I express is to be construed in any way as representative of entities which I may be associated with, including but not limited to employers, clubs, or charitable organisations. All commentary is made as a private citizen, regardless of the method of creative expression, and in accordance with personal integrity and my perception of the public interest. This disclaimer is to be applied perpetually and retroactively.Hi ASIO roll

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#69 2014-09-15 04:43:21

wrcmad
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From: Northern NSW
Registered: 2012-01-02
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

smk762 wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:
smk762 wrote:

Those who don't invest shouldn't be liable for paying for the failed speculative greed of those who do.

Neither should those who don't utilise a service be liable for it's funding. wink

Agreed. In a perfect world...

Alternatively, only those that voted in the current government should pay tax.

And only those who pay tax should be allowed to vote. smile


Anything is possible, but not everything is probable.  wink

Manipulation..... If you want to continually subscribe to this idea then get out of precious metals. Only a fool would play a game that is completely rigged. As you still are in the game, I would say that you are not completely convinced of the manipulation ...

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#70 2014-09-15 05:03:26

smk762
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From: Westralia
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

LoL. GST for all, income tax only for primary voters of the winning team. Imagine the comedy potential when minor parties come in at an all time high. Moot argument though, whoever wins will just cut income tax and raise the GST. Everybody wins!


Note: No view / opinion I express is to be construed in any way as representative of entities which I may be associated with, including but not limited to employers, clubs, or charitable organisations. All commentary is made as a private citizen, regardless of the method of creative expression, and in accordance with personal integrity and my perception of the public interest. This disclaimer is to be applied perpetually and retroactively.Hi ASIO roll

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#71 2014-09-15 05:46:01

hawkeye
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From: Perth, Australia
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

smk762 wrote:
mmm....shiney! wrote:
smk762 wrote:

Those who don't invest shouldn't be liable for paying for the failed speculative greed of those who do.

Neither should those who don't utilise a service be liable for it's funding. wink

Agreed. In a perfect world...

Alternatively, only those that voted in the current government should pay tax.

Well, it's funny how the majority of us manage to live and work in that "perfect world" but for some reason government workers aren't willing to offer their services on the open market.

wrcmad wrote:

And only those who vote should pay tax. smile

FIFY

Last edited by hawkeye (2014-09-15 06:44:30)

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#72 2014-09-15 06:55:11

smk762
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From: Westralia
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

You offering me a job? or should I quit and join the dole queue waiting for something to open up at McDonalds?
Workplace turnover is pretty high apart from the guys within a decade of retirement, so I assume these are the "some" you refer to?

I've followed a few leads, but none of the work offered has offered the same potential for satisfaction as occasionally being involved in bush fire suppression support. I'm happy with the opportunities I'm given to build my resume and experience, despite having to wait for someone to retire to even have a chance at promotion. Thank you, generous tax payers of Australia for granting me this precious gift.

Anyone else want to offer up their profession so we can critique it?


Note: No view / opinion I express is to be construed in any way as representative of entities which I may be associated with, including but not limited to employers, clubs, or charitable organisations. All commentary is made as a private citizen, regardless of the method of creative expression, and in accordance with personal integrity and my perception of the public interest. This disclaimer is to be applied perpetually and retroactively.Hi ASIO roll

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#73 2014-09-15 07:03:27

Savocado
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From: Melbourne
Registered: 2014-04-16
Posts: 71
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

*Yawn* Yeah it's going down, how much? when?

I have been hearing how much it's going to fall and when and how etc etc for a long long time.

It never falls by much and generally bounces back.

I think it'll take longer to fall than most expect.

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#74 2014-09-15 07:55:28

smk762
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From: Westralia
Registered: 2014-09-04
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

Lower dollar is offset by increased export earnings -
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busines … 6731581477

The link is almost a year old, but on track with AUD value forecasts so far.

BREE anticipates the Australian dollar, which is trading around US93.7 cents today (Oct 2013), will average US91 cents this financial year and fall to US86 cents next year, where the agency assumes it will remain up until 2018.

Here's a more recent one - http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/09/1 … 2G20140915

If the relationship between coal, iron ore and the Australian dollar in the 2008 crash and recovery had been replicated in the present commodity price weakness, the Australian currency should be somewhere around 75 U.S. cents.


Note: No view / opinion I express is to be construed in any way as representative of entities which I may be associated with, including but not limited to employers, clubs, or charitable organisations. All commentary is made as a private citizen, regardless of the method of creative expression, and in accordance with personal integrity and my perception of the public interest. This disclaimer is to be applied perpetually and retroactively.Hi ASIO roll

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#75 2014-09-15 08:39:16

wrcmad
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From: Northern NSW
Registered: 2012-01-02
Posts: 6,109
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Re: Aussie dollar to drop below 66c - "benign" collapse ahead

hawkeye wrote:


wrcmad wrote:

And only those who vote should pay tax. smile

FIFY

-1
Only those who make a contribution, should get a say on it's distribution.
Anyone who disagrees is most likely supported by the public purse (or has an awesome accountant tongue). smile


Anything is possible, but not everything is probable.  wink

Manipulation..... If you want to continually subscribe to this idea then get out of precious metals. Only a fool would play a game that is completely rigged. As you still are in the game, I would say that you are not completely convinced of the manipulation ...

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