Silver Stackers logo

Silver Stackers

Discussion forum for those
who love to stack precious metals

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Forum registration is temporarily disabled due to a spam attack.

#26 2013-05-22 03:42:35

hawkeye
Silver Stacker
From: Perth, Australia
Registered: 2010-11-10
Posts: 3,337
Trades :   25 

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

Old Codger wrote:

Clawhammer,

I hate to tell you this,  but if a Government passes a law and acts in accordance with that law,  they have NOT stolen anything!!

They have acted LAWFULLY!  (as did the bank)


OC

Yep, the government can do whatever it wants and call it the law as long as they get a majority in parliament to vote on it.

And if the banks want certain laws they can ask parliament for them and offer a few "incentives" to politicians to vote them into law.

And the citizens will respect the law.

Last edited by hawkeye (2013-05-22 03:47:04)

Offline

#27 2013-05-22 05:22:34

Clawhammer
Silver Stacker
From: Gone Fishin'
Registered: 2010-02-26
Posts: 9,492
Trades :   

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

I don't remember getting to vote on it... nor was I even asked my opinion.


Specialisation is for insects

Offline

The following user says thank you for this post: bordsilver

#28 2013-05-22 05:29:59

Golden ChipMunk
Member
From: Jupiter, Venus, Mars
Registered: 2012-12-12
Posts: 6,727
Trades :   255 

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

Same here. They do what they like.
Kinda s##@.


Original Perth CAPSULES - All Sizes Available
Full/ Half SOVEREIGN caps, contact Chip wink

Please leave pm , I will reply back  wink Chip

Offline

#29 2013-05-22 07:32:30

markcoinoz
Silver Stacker
From: Melbourne
Registered: 2012-04-29
Posts: 685
Trades :   37 

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

bordsilver wrote:

One of Swan's many tricks to try get that surplus he'd been promising for years.  Incompetent f*wit sad

Wayne Swan, August 2010: wrote:

Well, we're getting back into surplus in three years. Come hell or high water.

Wayne Swan, April 2011: wrote:

We see the surplus in 12-13 as being absolutely fundamental.

Wayne Swan, May 2011: wrote:

We'll be back in the black by 2012/13, as promised.

Wayne Swan, February 2012: wrote:

I am determined to produce a surplus in 2012-2013. We have got our colours nailed to the mast.

Wayne Swan, March 2012: wrote:

Despite the tough global conditions, we remain determined to return the budget to surplus in 2012/13, and we will get there.

Wayne Swan, 9th December 2012: wrote:

It's appropriate that we return to surplus.

Wayne Swan, 14th May 2013: wrote:

there will be a deficit of $19.4 billion in 2012-13

Wayne Swan, After much praying, I hope we return to a surplus before I am dead and buried.  tongue


Cheers Markcoinoz

Offline

#30 2013-05-22 07:59:29

RomanControl
Banned
From: Sydney
Registered: 2011-11-01
Posts: 1,106
Trades :   

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

hawkeye wrote:
Old Codger wrote:

Clawhammer,

I hate to tell you this,  but if a Government passes a law and acts in accordance with that law,  they have NOT stolen anything!!

They have acted LAWFULLY!  (as did the bank)


OC

Yep, the government can do whatever it wants and call it the law as long as they get a majority in parliament to vote on it.

And if the banks want certain laws they can ask parliament for them and offer a few "incentives" to politicians to vote them into law.

And the citizens will respect the law.

Listen here you old codger, don't believe that nonsense the TV tells you. You're old enough to know better.
Only the people have the power to make new law.
The parliament can only make legislation.
And that legislation must fall within the greater law.
If parliament had the power to make new law then there would be absolutely no need for referendums.

Its not rocket surgery.
Legislation is supposed to be there to empower public servants to spend our commonwealth in ways we want.
Its not supposed to be used by parliamentarians to tell us what to do.
We have no masters. We own the damn country as soverigns.
Let's start acting like it , before we have it stolen from us by jingo.

Legislation that does not respect our property rights falls outside the greater law. Or is unlawful.
Sure its legal if you have a fake governor general, but its sure as hell unlawful.

what's the plural for referendum? where's a priest when you need him?

Last edited by RomanControl (2013-05-22 08:10:11)


Tin Foil Hat Brigade Member
Premium Princess

Offline

The following user says thank you for this post: mmm....shiney!

#31 2013-05-22 21:14:55

renovator
Member
From: QLD
Registered: 2011-01-20
Posts: 7,517
Trades :   

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

RomanControl wrote:
hawkeye wrote:
Old Codger wrote:

Clawhammer,

I hate to tell you this,  but if a Government passes a law and acts in accordance with that law,  they have NOT stolen anything!!

They have acted LAWFULLY!  (as did the bank)


OC

Yep, the government can do whatever it wants and call it the law as long as they get a majority in parliament to vote on it.

And if the banks want certain laws they can ask parliament for them and offer a few "incentives" to politicians to vote them into law.

And the citizens will respect the law.

Listen here you old codger, don't believe that nonsense the TV tells you. You're old enough to know better.
Only the people have the power to make new law.
The parliament can only make legislation.
And that legislation must fall within the greater law.
If parliament had the power to make new law then there would be absolutely no need for referendums.

Its not rocket surgery.
Legislation is supposed to be there to empower public servants to spend our commonwealth in ways we want.
Its not supposed to be used by parliamentarians to tell us what to do.
We have no masters. We own the damn country as soverigns.
Let's start acting like it , before we have it stolen from us by jingo.

Legislation that does not respect our property rights falls outside the greater law. Or is unlawful.
Sure its legal if you have a fake governor general, but its sure as hell unlawful.

what's the plural for referendum? where's a priest when you need him?

rocket surgery ?  tongue:


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

Offline

The following user says thank you for this post: petey

#32 2013-05-22 21:25:56

renovator
Member
From: QLD
Registered: 2011-01-20
Posts: 7,517
Trades :   

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

Clawhammer wrote:
Golden ChipMunk wrote:

Day after day twist and turn their policies to confuse the citizen.

It's just constant bloody change.... it's like trying to play a game of billards on a Frisbee that's been thrown around an orbiting moon... I can't remember a time when there was so much govt. interference in everyday life. sad

Yep the main reason i headed for greener pastures . Australia a free country ? You have got to be joking !!!! nowhere else in the world are you over taxed, over regulated, spied on, observed & monitored . Its really got out of control by the complacency of the zombies The bikers are the only ones making a noise about YOUR rights .  roll . Wake up grow some gonads & speak out or are you too scared they will follow you home ? monitor you & take pictures of you & your family ? lol why worry they are doing it already .   lol


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

Offline

#33 2013-05-22 23:14:14

Old Codger
Silver Stacker
Registered: 2011-05-13
Posts: 5,128

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

"Only the people have the power to make new law.
The parliament can only make legislation.
And that legislation must fall within the greater law.
If parliament had the power to make new law then there would be absolutely no need for referendums."



Try telling that to the High Court!


OC


"The Australian Labor Party is a democratic socialist party and has the objective of the democratic socialisation of industry, production, distribution and exchange, to the extent necessary to eliminate exploitation and other anti-social features in these fields."   -  ALP Constitution.

Offline

#34 2013-05-23 00:26:44

RomanControl
Banned
From: Sydney
Registered: 2011-11-01
Posts: 1,106
Trades :   

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

Old Codger wrote:

"Only the people have the power to make new law.
The parliament can only make legislation.
And that legislation must fall within the greater law.
If parliament had the power to make new law then there would be absolutely no need for referendums."



Try telling that to the High Court!


OC

The high court is a counterfeit.
Its a privately owned subsidiary of the commonwealth of australia corporation.
So I wouldn't go to the high court for any reason besides arresting the lawyers for treason.

The new buzz word this foreign government is using is a "constitutional corporation"
If we don't act soon , in a few years noone will remember that government is not a business.


Tin Foil Hat Brigade Member
Premium Princess

Offline

#35 2013-05-23 00:42:26

petey
Silver Stacker
Registered: 2010-05-18
Posts: 1,149

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

renovator wrote:
Clawhammer wrote:
Golden ChipMunk wrote:

Day after day twist and turn their policies to confuse the citizen.

It's just constant bloody change.... it's like trying to play a game of billards on a Frisbee that's been thrown around an orbiting moon... I can't remember a time when there was so much govt. interference in everyday life. sad

Yep the main reason i headed for greener pastures . Australia a free country ? You have got to be joking !!!! nowhere else in the world are you over taxed, over regulated, spied on, observed & monitored . Its really got out of control by the complacency of the zombies The bikers are the only ones making a noise about YOUR rights .  roll . Wake up grow some gonads & speak out or are you too scared they will follow you home ? monitor you & take pictures of you & your family ? lol why worry they are doing it already .   lol

So you aren't in NSW anymore? Or do you live in Oz and run a company elsewhere?

Offline

#36 2014-06-12 21:00:06

House
Moderator/ Legend
From: Stack City
Registered: 2012-04-30
Posts: 9,606
Trades :   232 

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

Gov raised $360m from this cash grab

The federal government has bagged an unprecedented $360 million from household bank accounts since a controversial change to unclaimed money laws, figures from the Australian Securities and Investments Commission show.

Pensioners and others saving for a rainy day have reported trying to access their savings only to discover their money had been seized by the government because it had been dormant for three years or more.

The government has collected more money from inactive bank accounts under the three-year rule than the total amount captured in the past five decades combined

But don't worry, it's for their own good...

ASIC said the chief purpose of the laws was to reunite people with lost accounts before funds were eroded by fees, charges and inflation.

SMH


WBI- 41.16

"There's no point in paying a mortgage on an asset that is going to fall by 40 per cent or so in the next few years". Steve Keen, 2008.
Stacker FAQ'S. New threads welcome- http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic- … faq-s.html

Offline

#37 2014-06-12 21:13:55

Old Codger
Silver Stacker
Registered: 2011-05-13
Posts: 5,128

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

This thing has been going for 50+ years that i can recall.   It was I think 7 years in the beginning.

I also think that bank accounts, unclaimed dividends, unclaimed shares,  and unclaimed Lottery winnings are all in the net.

I DO know that you can get it all back if you can prove title to the stuff.


OC


"The Australian Labor Party is a democratic socialist party and has the objective of the democratic socialisation of industry, production, distribution and exchange, to the extent necessary to eliminate exploitation and other anti-social features in these fields."   -  ALP Constitution.

Offline

#38 2014-06-12 21:55:05

Big A.D.
Silver Stacker
From: Sydney
Registered: 2009-10-29
Posts: 6,379
Trades :   51 

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

Old Codger wrote:

This thing has been going for 50+ years that i can recall.   It was I think 7 years in the beginning.

I also think that bank accounts, unclaimed dividends, unclaimed shares,  and unclaimed Lottery winnings are all in the net.

I DO know that you can get it all back if you can prove title to the stuff.

Please don't clog up the thread with facts. This is government theft, plain and simple.

The ability to reclaim your lost funds is neither here nor there.


I am the Leafy Sea Dragon.

Offline

#39 2014-06-12 22:00:19

House
Moderator/ Legend
From: Stack City
Registered: 2012-04-30
Posts: 9,606
Trades :   232 

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

And they pay you back with interest. How very kind.

Last edited by House (2014-06-12 22:00:41)


WBI- 41.16

"There's no point in paying a mortgage on an asset that is going to fall by 40 per cent or so in the next few years". Steve Keen, 2008.
Stacker FAQ'S. New threads welcome- http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic- … faq-s.html

Offline

#40 2014-06-12 23:29:59

col0016
Member
From: Australia, Melbourne
Registered: 2011-01-04
Posts: 2,628
Trades :   20 

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

Big A.D. wrote:
Old Codger wrote:

This thing has been going for 50+ years that i can recall.   It was I think 7 years in the beginning.

I also think that bank accounts, unclaimed dividends, unclaimed shares,  and unclaimed Lottery winnings are all in the net.

I DO know that you can get it all back if you can prove title to the stuff.

Please don't clog up the thread with facts. This is government theft, plain and simple.

The ability to reclaim your lost funds is neither here nor there.

So if I stole your car and left a note saying I was just looking after it so that you could be reunited with it in 6 weeks that'd be sweet yeah?

Offline

#41 2014-06-12 23:32:23

col0016
Member
From: Australia, Melbourne
Registered: 2011-01-04
Posts: 2,628
Trades :   20 

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

"Stole" sounds too harsh... If I "appropriated" your car

Offline

#42 2014-06-13 00:47:46

Big A.D.
Silver Stacker
From: Sydney
Registered: 2009-10-29
Posts: 6,379
Trades :   51 

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

col0016 wrote:
Big A.D. wrote:
Old Codger wrote:

This thing has been going for 50+ years that i can recall.   It was I think 7 years in the beginning.

I also think that bank accounts, unclaimed dividends, unclaimed shares,  and unclaimed Lottery winnings are all in the net.

I DO know that you can get it all back if you can prove title to the stuff.

Please don't clog up the thread with facts. This is government theft, plain and simple.

The ability to reclaim your lost funds is neither here nor there.

So if I stole your car and left a note saying I was just looking after it so that you could be reunited with it in 6 weeks that'd be sweet yeah?

If my car had been sitting unused in a side-street for three years, with long expired rego and covered in leaves and spiderwebs...uh, yeah, feel free.

Worth remembering of course that local councils typically collect abandoned vehicles within a few weeks of them being reported and they attempt to contact the owner. If the vehicle is impounded, you'll have 28 days to claim it before it's sold and then 12 months to claim the sale proceeds before they permanently revert to the council.


I am the Leafy Sea Dragon.

Offline

The following 2 users say thank you for this post: Old Codger, House

#43 2014-06-13 02:15:19

Old Codger
Silver Stacker
Registered: 2011-05-13
Posts: 5,128

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)


"The Australian Labor Party is a democratic socialist party and has the objective of the democratic socialisation of industry, production, distribution and exchange, to the extent necessary to eliminate exploitation and other anti-social features in these fields."   -  ALP Constitution.

Offline

#44 2014-06-13 07:01:08

bordsilver
Silver Stacker
From: The rocks
Registered: 2012-05-23
Posts: 9,476
Trades :   36 

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

Old Codger wrote:

I DO know that you can get it all back if you can prove title to the stuff.

Except in my case where the NSW Government refuses to accept the fact that the tax office is taxing me on dividends that I purportedly received as proof that the lost dividends are actually mine. The company had my TFN and told the ATO that I "received" the dividends cheque sent to an old home address but the NSW Government refuses to accept this as proof that I actually owned the dividends that I actually was the shareholder. mad


The only good tax is a repealed tax.

Offline

#45 2014-06-13 08:30:46

boyracer
Member
Registered: 2012-03-13
Posts: 487
Trades :   18 

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

Big A.D. wrote:
col0016 wrote:
Big A.D. wrote:

Please don't clog up the thread with facts. This is government theft, plain and simple.

The ability to reclaim your lost funds is neither here nor there.

So if I stole your car and left a note saying I was just looking after it so that you could be reunited with it in 6 weeks that'd be sweet yeah?


If my car had been sitting unused in a side-street for three years, with long expired rego and covered in leaves and spiderwebs...uh, yeah, feel free.

Worth remembering of course that local councils typically collect abandoned vehicles within a few weeks of them being reported and they attempt to contact the owner. If the vehicle is impounded, you'll have 28 days to claim it before it's sold and then 12 months to claim the sale proceeds before they permanently revert to the council.

False analogy. What if my car was in my garage, covered to keep it free from dust but I just decided to leave it there unused for 3 years simply cause I felt like it (or I was travelling overseas or whatever). Is it still acceptable for someone to come along and appropriate it on the condition they will return it in 6 weeks if I ask for it back (and after proving my title to the car)? Comparing it to a car left on a side street covered in cobwebs is an unfair comparison.

Big A.D I think you are a generally reasonable voice on this forum but I don't understand your ambivalence about this issue. It is theft, plain and simple, notwithstanding the fact the govt may have made it "legal".

Last edited by boyracer (2014-06-13 08:32:43)

Offline

#46 2014-06-13 09:07:04

col0016
Member
From: Australia, Melbourne
Registered: 2011-01-04
Posts: 2,628
Trades :   20 

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

Big A.D. wrote:
col0016 wrote:
Big A.D. wrote:

Please don't clog up the thread with facts. This is government theft, plain and simple.

The ability to reclaim your lost funds is neither here nor there.

So if I stole your car and left a note saying I was just looking after it so that you could be reunited with it in 6 weeks that'd be sweet yeah?

If my car had been sitting unused in a side-street for three years, with long expired rego and covered in leaves and spiderwebs...uh, yeah, feel free.

Worth remembering of course that local councils typically collect abandoned vehicles within a few weeks of them being reported and they attempt to contact the owner. If the vehicle is impounded, you'll have 28 days to claim it before it's sold and then 12 months to claim the sale proceeds before they permanently revert to the council.

Are you seriously comparing a private bank account to a public street? I'm not sure if you're serious...

Just in case you are, a better analogy would be having the car in storage and the government taking it. A bank account shouldn't be seen as the equivalent of leaving money on a public footpath.

Offline

The following user says thank you for this post: hawkeye

#47 2014-06-13 09:22:10

pmbug
Member
From: Texas
Registered: 2011-10-22
Posts: 232
Trades :   
Website

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

col0016 wrote:

... A bank account shouldn't be seen as the equivalent of leaving money on a public footpath.

In this day and age, maybe it should.  /cynic


The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. - Lao Tzu

Offline

The following user says thank you for this post: col0016

#48 2014-06-13 16:42:33

Old Codger
Silver Stacker
Registered: 2011-05-13
Posts: 5,128

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

bordsilver,


"Except in my case where the NSW Government refuses to accept the fact that the tax office is taxing me on dividends that I purportedly received as proof that the lost dividends are actually mine. The company had my TFN and told the ATO that I "received" the dividends cheque sent to an old home address but the NSW Government refuses to accept this as proof that I actually owned the dividends that I actually was the shareholder. mad"



I find this confusing.    The Dividend cheque was posted to you at the registered address according to the Share Register,  but I assume that it was never presented for payment.

Did you inquire as to why the cheque never arrived? say after 3 months from payment date?  Did you register a new address after you moved?  AFAIK,  I have never received a dividend cheque for probably 20 years, they have always been credited to our bank account.

I would have thought 100 points of ID would have been enough, plus the fact that you never negotiated  the cheque or had it credited.

Strange.


OC


"The Australian Labor Party is a democratic socialist party and has the objective of the democratic socialisation of industry, production, distribution and exchange, to the extent necessary to eliminate exploitation and other anti-social features in these fields."   -  ALP Constitution.

Offline

#49 2014-06-14 14:46:32

badhammy
Silver Stacker
From: Betelgeuse
Registered: 2011-04-14
Posts: 513
Trades :   31 

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

The Abbott government will reverse Labor's policy of taking money from people's ''unclaimed'' bank accounts after just three years.
The money-siphoning policy, designed in 2012 when former treasurer Wayne Swan was keeping alive his promise of delivering a string of budget surpluses, has angered consumers who found their money had vanished from savings accounts after what they considered a short period of inactivity. Interviews conducted this week by Fairfax Media quoted elderly Australians who were shocked to discover their savings had been taken by the government.
Senior government sources say the Coalition is now certain to scrap Labor's three-year policy, which collected $520 million for the budget in 2012-13.
The only question being debated is how long an account should remain dormant before the government intervenes. Either five years or seven years is considered most likely but the government will reserve judgment until Finance Minister Mathias Cormann has finished consulting with consumers and the banking sector.
Opposition Leader Bill Shorten, financial services minister at the time of the change, stands by his policy on unclaimed savings, pitching it as a consumer protection measure. So does shadow treasurer Chris Bowen, although he acknowledges one concern. He says Labor has written to ASIC - the organisation that collects the ''unclaimed'' savings - to ask why ''it is taking so long for some consumers to claim their money back''. Mr Bowen blames this on the government's budget cuts to ASIC.
''This is about protecting people's savings to ensure it's not eroded by bank fees and changes,'' Mr Shorten said.
But several Labor shadow ministers are privately embarrassed about the policy and when asked about it one frontbencher thought the bank policy was still seven years. Others wished Mr Shorten would stop feeling beholden to a policy designed in financially troubled circumstances.
One opposition frontbencher compared the bank siphoning policy with the Gillard government's ''wrong'' decision to cut welfare payments for thousands of single mothers.
The Coalition has been critical of the policy since it was announced. Senator Cormann calls it ''bad policy'' by a government ''desperate for more cash because they made such a mess of the budget''.
Senator Cormann released a discussion paper in May and says he has ''received a lot of feedback from people right across Australia who are very unhappy about this attack on their bank accounts''.
While the consultation period remains open, the Coalition is committed to undoing the policy. This will come with the enthusiastic backing of the banks, but consumer groups are divided.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ … z34dmjORmh

Offline

#50 2014-06-14 20:58:18

bordsilver
Silver Stacker
From: The rocks
Registered: 2012-05-23
Posts: 9,476
Trades :   36 

Re: "Unclaimed" money (in Bank)

Old Codger wrote:

bordsilver,

I find this confusing.    The Dividend cheque was posted to you at the registered address according to the Share Register,  but I assume that it was never presented for payment.

Did you inquire as to why the cheque never arrived? say after 3 months from payment date?  Did you register a new address after you moved?  AFAIK,  I have never received a dividend cheque for probably 20 years, they have always been credited to our bank account.

I would have thought 100 points of ID would have been enough, plus the fact that you never negotiated  the cheque or had it credited.

It's bloody crazy. It was a result of my living in a share house for ~3 months and changing my address with the company. The NSW Government won't take 100 point ID (or the ATO's word) as proof and insist (even after asking to speak to managers and the manager's manager) that I need proof that I lived at the address. Ironically probably the only proof that I lived there are the dividend cheques as nothing was in my name. I could tell them the exact address on the phone and am the only person in the country with my name and my TFN is attached to it but according to their stupid rules I need to have some real estate receipt or Telecom bill in my name with the address printed on it.


The only good tax is a repealed tax.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB