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#26 2013-02-19 00:30:20

AngloSaxon
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From: Sydney
Registered: 2012-10-26
Posts: 1,980
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

Anyone who was suckered into the "Collins Class is crap" meme are useful idiots of the intrinsic rivalry between surface and subsurface factions in the Navy. The surface fleet boffins in the navy couldn't stand that funding they wanted for surface boats was being taken for submarines. The media and media consumers including people here who obviously consider themselves immune to MSM influence, all lapped it up.

Yes it is hard to man the submarine fleets but we can thank the highly skilled crews being poached by the mines due to their expensive transferrable skills.

The Collins can easilly get close enough to US aircraft carriers to photograph their propellers, just like the Oberon class conventional submarines before them. And then get out again, which even the nuclear powered subs of the world have not been able to do in realistic-condition exercises.

As for expecting the F35 to be one airframe to do all conceivable jobs, well yes that's a problem.

Sea Sprite - government dictating purchase of second hand airframes at $X cost as opposed to buying new at $XX. The end result is something costing $XXX and is unusable because they wanted to retrofit it to do every job. If only the government would buy off the shelf platforms rather than trying to save money retrofitting something worn out to do every job - and ending up spending more than new. Look at HMAS Tobruk. Disparagingly called HMAS Tobroken by the rank and file of the Navy as it is a useless piece of junk. All the second hand landing ships have ended up being rusty unusable junk.

Sadly the F35 project may be an international effort imitating the Australian government.


Age Res Proprias Tuas

Now reading: Coming Apart - The State of America by Charles Murray.

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#27 2013-02-19 00:55:03

JulieW
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From: Australia
Registered: 2010-10-14
Posts: 11,101

Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

Is this the thing covered in Four Corners the other night?

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/series/2303988

War is redundant now with the scary weapons they all have. It's all economic manipulation and population control. Corporations don't need to go to war. They just to sell their war machines.

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#28 2013-02-19 01:05:05

hawkeye
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From: Perth, Australia
Registered: 2010-11-10
Posts: 3,337
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

JulieW wrote:

War is redundant now with the scary weapons they all have. It's all economic manipulation and population control. Corporations don't need to go to war. They just to sell their war machines.

Governments have to legitimise their buying of war machines.    Take a look at a the map and pick some country to invade that people don't care about too much, go in heavy initially, declare victory and then make sure your construction companies get the best rebuilding contracts.   Use the media to spin all the subsequent bad news of the society you have destroyed.   Don't bother too hard because most people want to believe they are the good guys and many either work or have friends or relatives who work in a company with military contracts.   Everyone's happy, apart from the few fringe unpatriotic troublemakers who don't like America and who cares about them.

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#29 2013-02-19 05:10:04

LovingtheSilver
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From: Perth
Registered: 2010-01-03
Posts: 1,420
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

The Indos bought a few billion dollar subs off the Russians a while back and probably have plans to buy some Migs or Sukhois in the future.
I'm not a military buff so I really don't know the good/bad/ugly about the F35, but my preference would've been to buy updated versions of F15's or F18's, my guess, more planes for your buck. Or look at some from the Russians. Nothing wrong with diversity smile
What attack helicopters did we end up getting for up north? I remember the Apache was being looked at but they bought something else.

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#30 2013-02-19 05:15:38

Shaddam IV
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From: House Corrino
Registered: 2010-03-22
Posts: 6,277

Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

After watching a bunch of police in Jakarta in black riot gear standing around a new British armoured urban suppression truck watching 2 other cops standing on the fenders trying to lift the 1" thick armoured hood so that they could try and start it with a pair of jumper leads and a taxi I realised that we probably don't have much to fear militarily from Indonesia for quite some time.


.

Last edited by Shaddam IV (2013-02-19 05:16:12)

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#31 2013-02-19 05:28:04

Argentum
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From: Australia
Registered: 2010-11-06
Posts: 1,942
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

what about the german ones i think they are called dolphin; heard they are pretty good

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#32 2013-02-19 06:56:08

AngloSaxon
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From: Sydney
Registered: 2012-10-26
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

LovingtheSilver wrote:

The Indos bought a few billion dollar subs off the Russians a while back and probably have plans to buy some Migs or Sukhois in the future.
I'm not a military buff so I really don't know the good/bad/ugly about the F35, but my preference would've been to buy updated versions of F15's or F18's, my guess, more planes for your buck. Or look at some from the Russians. Nothing wrong with diversity smile
What attack helicopters did we end up getting for up north? I remember the Apache was being looked at but they bought something else.

Reliability of anything Russian in the long term  is an issue. The political damage of using anything Russian would cost more than the outlay of funds to buy them.

Army went with a variant of the Tiger made by Eurocopter, thats the one you're thinking of.


Age Res Proprias Tuas

Now reading: Coming Apart - The State of America by Charles Murray.

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#33 2013-02-19 07:35:38

thatguy
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From: Brisbane
Registered: 2011-01-18
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

errol43 wrote:

^^^^Have a look at this video on the F 35

Regards Errol 43

That movie is the biggest load of horse shit I have seen for some time.   Visual range combat??   WTF is this WW2??  BVR is the only form of combat engaged in when talking about modern fighter jets.  If you can see an enemy plane visually your already dead.    BVR + stealth is what this plane was designed for not strafing enemy bombers?!?!

I am still astounded and I want my 2 minutes of my life back that I just wasted, seriously the JSF35 may have deficiencies but whoever made that FUD up knows nothing about them


I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.  Acts 20:33 KJV
Lay up your treasure in heaven where it cannot be debased by printing or stolen by banksters.

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#34 2013-02-19 08:03:37

BIGGRIN
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From: North Pole
Registered: 2011-04-29
Posts: 206

Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

I think they should paint it yellow...


Money can't buy you happiness but it does bring you a more pleasant form of misery.
Spike Milligan

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#35 2013-02-19 18:00:47

scone
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From: Under Downunder
Registered: 2012-03-15
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

LovingtheSilver wrote:

The Indos bought a few billion dollar subs off the Russians a while back and probably have plans to buy some Migs or Sukhois in the future.
I'm not a military buff so I really don't know the good/bad/ugly about the F35, but my preference would've been to buy updated versions of F15's or F18's, my guess, more planes for your buck. Or look at some from the Russians. Nothing wrong with diversity smile
What attack helicopters did we end up getting for up north? I remember the Apache was being looked at but they bought something else.

We bought Tiger Helicopters and started taking delivery in 2004.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_Tiger

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#36 2013-02-19 18:03:01

lucky luke
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From: Qld
Registered: 2011-05-15
Posts: 1,907
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

sconejon wrote:

........... Or look at some from the Russians. Nothing wrong with diversity smile

There is when the yanks think we should be wasting our money on their sh#t


In the world of perception management "Beliefs are stronger than facts".

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#37 2013-02-19 18:10:32

scone
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

not my words

Last edited by scone (2013-02-19 18:23:07)

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#38 2013-02-19 18:31:25

lucky luke
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From: Qld
Registered: 2011-05-15
Posts: 1,907
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

sconejon wrote:

not my words

Hey sconejon. This post is definitely not directed at you. I know your history of posting and it's quite good. I'm just using your post as a prompter for a little factitious general comment.

I think the F35 might fall under the title "crap". It hasn't even made it into the air. Putting wings on a lemon and throwing it out of the window of a skyscraper would be more successful. lol

As for the other Yank equipment on offer, we still have this mindset that if it's American made with all the propaganda involved (like that wonderful plastic M16 from the Vietnam Era), it must be better than that cheap rubbish crap (like that ugly AK47 which happens to still be one of the most versatile weapons on offer around the world).

Instead of sinking more money into the F35 money pit, we'd have more to show putting that same money towards Russian "crap" like a bushel of MIG-29s with a handful of MIG-35s mixed in. While we're at it, maybe we should invest a few bob in the J-31. Afterall, if we're going to buy a bit of Russian "crap", we might as well buy a bit of Chinese "crap" while we're at it.

Somehow, I think we would end up with more in our hands buying the Russian & Chinese options than we've presently invested in the F35 USA option. But damn, we'd then upset our friend and ally. Can't go doing that. Our friend might suddenly become our enemy. Ask the Japs how easy that happens (post WW1).

lol:lol::lol::lol: (I can see the arm chair generals already polishing their computer keys, armed and dangerous).

Last edited by lucky luke (2013-02-19 18:42:20)


In the world of perception management "Beliefs are stronger than facts".

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#39 2013-02-19 22:11:10

Yippe-Ki-Ya
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

i agree- Migs would provide much more bang for buck - literally!

Not sure what the cost differential would be. i.e. how many migs we'd get for the same bucks, but i'd bet my entire stack that the x number of migs we'd get for the same money as y number of US built fighters would knock ten colours of [email protected] outa those us fighters!  lol

of course x > y but that's the bluddy point!

Last edited by Yippe-Ki-Ya (2013-02-19 22:11:40)


mmm....shiney! wrote: House prices are the leading indicator of what???????????

Yippe-Ki-Ya wrote: gubmint meddling  lol

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#40 2013-02-19 23:07:01

renovator
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From: QLD
Registered: 2011-01-20
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

Im constantly amazed at the amount of information available on SS ....now we have military aircraft & submarine experts in our midst    lol


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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#41 2013-02-19 23:24:47

bordsilver
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From: The rocks
Registered: 2012-05-23
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

renovator wrote:

Im constantly amazed at the amount of information available on SS ....now we have military aircraft & submarine experts in our midst    lol

There are a bunch of current and ex-military personnel and materiel suppliers on here.

Whether or not they are the ones providing many of the comments is another issue tongue


The only good tax is a repealed tax.

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#42 2013-02-19 23:53:03

Yippe-Ki-Ya
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

renovator wrote:

Im constantly amazed at the amount of information available on SS ....now we have military aircraft & submarine experts in our midst    lol

Common sense can go a long long way ... at least that's what you preach - but apparently it only applies to when you're doing the talking.

Lemme guess - you reckon the top American fighter aircraft are so far superior to the top Russian aircraft that even being outnumbered 5 to 1 (or whatever) would be no problemo! The Russians go down!!??

This is what your comment implies, and if that's what you really believe then you really watch way too many movies.

Go back to watching Top Gun - get out the popcorn - and continue to live in your dream world then...

lol  Knowing you though, you know i'm right about what i said and you're simply sh1t stirring as usual - like you do with most topics.  lol


mmm....shiney! wrote: House prices are the leading indicator of what???????????

Yippe-Ki-Ya wrote: gubmint meddling  lol

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#43 2013-02-20 00:00:57

renovator
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From: QLD
Registered: 2011-01-20
Posts: 7,530
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

Yippe-Ki-Ya wrote:
renovator wrote:

Im constantly amazed at the amount of information available on SS ....now we have military aircraft & submarine experts in our midst    lol

Common sense can go a long long way ... at least that's what you preach - but apparently it only applies to when you're doing the talking.

Lemme guess - you reckon the top American fighter aircraft are so far superior to the top Russian aircraft that even being outnumbered 5 to 1 (or whatever) would be no problemo! The Russians go down!!??

This is what your comment implies, and if that's what you really believe then you really watch way too many movies.

Go back to watching Top Gun - get out the popcorn - and continue to live in your dream world then...

lol  Knowing you though, you know i'm right about what i said and you're simply sh1t stirring as usual - like you do with most topics.  lol

No i really have no idea which one is best & wouldnt comment on it ..... unlike yourself & the others ... Google &  a newspaper article just isnt enough info for me to make a decision ....unlike yourself & others   lol 

I suggest you make an application to the defense dept to be in charge for their acquisition of all future military vehicles be it land , air or sea  tongue:


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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#44 2013-02-20 00:09:10

Austacker
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From: The Wild West
Registered: 2010-02-26
Posts: 2,889
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

lucky luke wrote:

I think the F35 might fall under the title "crap". It hasn't even made it into the air. Putting wings on a lemon and throwing it out of the window of a skyscraper would be more successful. lol

Virtual ? I know Blue Screen big_smile

All the vids above are just special effects. But that wasn't what you meant was it.

Last edited by Austacker (2013-02-20 00:19:17)

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#45 2013-02-20 00:19:47

Yippe-Ki-Ya
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From: The Land of Guilty by Default
Registered: 2011-02-23
Posts: 5,892
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

renovator wrote:
Yippe-Ki-Ya wrote:
renovator wrote:

Im constantly amazed at the amount of information available on SS ....now we have military aircraft & submarine experts in our midst    lol

Common sense can go a long long way ... at least that's what you preach - but apparently it only applies to when you're doing the talking.

Lemme guess - you reckon the top American fighter aircraft are so far superior to the top Russian aircraft that even being outnumbered 5 to 1 (or whatever) would be no problemo! The Russians go down!!??

This is what your comment implies, and if that's what you really believe then you really watch way too many movies.

Go back to watching Top Gun - get out the popcorn - and continue to live in your dream world then...

lol  Knowing you though, you know i'm right about what i said and you're simply sh1t stirring as usual - like you do with most topics.  lol

No i really have no idea which one is best & wouldnt comment on it ..... unlike yourself & the others ... Google &  a newspaper article just isnt enough info for me to make a decision ....unlike yourself & others   lol 

I suggest you make an application to the defense dept to be in charge for their acquisition of all future military vehicles be it land , air or sea  tongue:

If you were to bet on the outcome of a contest one-on-one between the two then i guess it would be prudent to know the strengths and weaknesses of both in order to sensibly. However when the Migs heavily outnumber the US fighter then you'd have to be a complete tool to actually believe that the US fighter would still come out on top!

so yeh - actually it is simply a question of applying some common sense - something i'm surprised you're showing a lack of here.


mmm....shiney! wrote: House prices are the leading indicator of what???????????

Yippe-Ki-Ya wrote: gubmint meddling  lol

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#46 2013-02-20 00:27:25

lucky luke
Member
From: Qld
Registered: 2011-05-15
Posts: 1,907
Trades :   17 

Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

renovator wrote:

Im constantly amazed at the amount of information available on SS ....now we have military aircraft & submarine experts in our midst    lol

You'd be surprised exactly "what" is in "our" midst mate.  The world according to renovator is legendary in his own mind but in reality only a p#ss in a shower.


In the world of perception management "Beliefs are stronger than facts".

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#47 2013-02-20 00:43:30

renovator
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From: QLD
Registered: 2011-01-20
Posts: 7,530
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

lucky luke wrote:
renovator wrote:

Im constantly amazed at the amount of information available on SS ....now we have military aircraft & submarine experts in our midst    lol

You'd be surprised exactly "what" is in "our" midst mate.  The world according to renovator is legendary in his own mind but in reality only a p#ss in a shower.

yes luke as i said to yippee apply for the acquisition job with your wealth of knowledge dont forget to put google & the SMH & trolling renovator on SS ,on there for references   lol 

Im sure theres plenty of people on here with lots of experience in that field .....your just not one of them   

I dont think youve ever shared what you actually do or in what field you work if infact you do work  .Why dont you enlighten us on your experience with military aircraft.   lol

Ive shared plenty of things that ive done & achieved why dont you step up to the plate & do the same  for the sake of clarity so we know where your coming from or are you the real  "armchair general" ?


i used to be disgusted now im just amused

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#48 2013-02-20 01:01:07

Shaddam IV
Silver Stacker
From: House Corrino
Registered: 2010-03-22
Posts: 6,277

Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

lucky luke wrote:
renovator wrote:

Im constantly amazed at the amount of information available on SS ....now we have military aircraft & submarine experts in our midst    lol

You'd be surprised exactly "what" is in "our" midst mate.  The world according to renovator is legendary in his own mind but in reality only a p#ss in a shower.

Was it not only yesterday in another (now locked with your help I believe) thread that you were taking the moral high ground and berating another member for their posts? I am not seeing much of a difference between what you accused Renovator of doing to the Dear Departed and what you just did to him with this post.

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#49 2013-02-20 01:08:21

Yippe-Ki-Ya
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From: The Land of Guilty by Default
Registered: 2011-02-23
Posts: 5,892
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Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

Jonesy wrote:
lucky luke wrote:
renovator wrote:

Im constantly amazed at the amount of information available on SS ....now we have military aircraft & submarine experts in our midst    lol

You'd be surprised exactly "what" is in "our" midst mate.  The world according to renovator is legendary in his own mind but in reality only a p#ss in a shower.

Was it not only yesterday in another (now locked with your help I believe) thread that you were taking the moral high ground and berating another member for their posts? I am not seeing much of a difference between what you accused Renovator of doing to the Dear Departed and what you just did to him with this post.

I dont think Reno needs your help mate!  lol


mmm....shiney! wrote: House prices are the leading indicator of what???????????

Yippe-Ki-Ya wrote: gubmint meddling  lol

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#50 2013-02-20 01:23:35

lucky luke
Member
From: Qld
Registered: 2011-05-15
Posts: 1,907
Trades :   17 

Re: What a Price To Pay for F35 Fighter!

renovator wrote:
lucky luke wrote:
renovator wrote:

Im constantly amazed at the amount of information available on SS ....now we have military aircraft & submarine experts in our midst    lol

You'd be surprised exactly "what" is in "our" midst mate.  The world according to renovator is legendary in his own mind but in reality only a p#ss in a shower.

yes luke as i said to yippee apply for the acquisition job with your wealth of knowledge dont forget to put google & the SMH & trolling renovator on SS ,on there for references   lol 

Im sure theres plenty of people on here with lots of experience in that field .....your just not one of them   

I dont think you've ever shared what you actually do or in what field you work if infact you do work  .Why dont you enlighten us on your experience with military aircraft.   lol

Ive shared plenty of things that ive done & achieved why dont you step up to the plate & do the same  for the sake of clarity so we know where your coming from or are you the real  "armchair general" ?

Empty cans make the most noise mate. You've shared "lots" about yourself.  That's your problem, not mine. We all know your a legend, in your own mind at least.

What I do or have done is none of your business. Nor do I feel the need to enlighten you in anyway about my personal life or background. In short, mind you own business.


In the world of perception management "Beliefs are stronger than facts".

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