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#51 2016-01-11 04:13:00

Porcello
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From: NZ
Registered: 2015-04-20
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

GoldenEye wrote:
Golden ChipMunk wrote:

Did you see my photos?

Others material would shows up on the XRF screen

I saw your pics. I was referring to a fake gold coin that was not in packaging.

I've heard that 60 microns gold plating on tungsten will usually pass the XRF test, but the XRF may pick up the tungsten if left on longer to get better penetration.

Radio waves on earth almost go at the speed of light in vacuum. There's no way that waiting "longer" would change results or allow for deeper penetration.


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#52 2016-01-11 04:30:32

GoldenEye
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

Porcello wrote:

Radio waves on earth almost go at the speed of light in vacuum. There's no way that waiting "longer" would change results or allow for deeper penetration.

I don't know the science, but believe that "radio waves" may not be involved?

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#53 2016-01-11 04:58:00

Porcello
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

GoldenEye wrote:
Porcello wrote:

Radio waves on earth almost go at the speed of light in vacuum. There's no way that waiting "longer" would change results or allow for deeper penetration.

I don't know the science, but believe that "radio waves" may not be involved?

Ok, I'll be more accurate, then: electromagnetic waves.
Fact is, they are fast. Very fast.

I.e. As far as human's perception goes, the reading is instantaneous. Longer exposure will not change the reading.

Last edited by Porcello (2016-01-11 05:02:27)


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#54 2016-01-11 09:22:35

GoldenEye
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From: Melbourne, Australia
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

Porcello wrote:

Ok, I'll be more accurate, then: electromagnetic waves.
Fact is, they are fast. Very fast.

I.e. As far as human's perception goes, the reading is instantaneous. Longer exposure will not change the reading.

I'm just going by what I've noticed when someone else was using one, and their comments on the readings, but maybe I misunderstood what was happening.

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#55 2016-01-11 15:36:32

Porcello
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

GoldenEye wrote:
Porcello wrote:

Ok, I'll be more accurate, then: electromagnetic waves.
Fact is, they are fast. Very fast.

I.e. As far as human's perception goes, the reading is instantaneous. Longer exposure will not change the reading.

I'm just going by what I've noticed when someone else was using one, and their comments on the readings, but maybe I misunderstood what was happening.

Apologies are due. I spent a bit more time on a few xrf producers' web sites and yes, depending on the model, exposure time can influence accuracy. This is not due to additional time required for penetration (that's instantaneous) but to the sensitivity of the detector.


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#56 2016-02-18 09:32:39

Golden ChipMunk
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

Another Fakes sighted , 
Perth Mint 10 g certi cards.... Sequence in numbers.....


Original Perth CAPSULES - All Sizes Available
Full/ Half SOVEREIGN caps, contact Chip wink

Please leave pm , I will reply back  wink Chip

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#57 2016-02-18 13:23:46

Jim4silver
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

Golden ChipMunk wrote:

Another Fakes sighted , 
Perth Mint 10 g certi cards.... Sequence in numbers.....


You poo poo'd my prior post here which was 100% good advice.   It is much easier to make real looking fake gold bars than gold coins (especially when the gold bar is in plastic).   It is very difficult to make fakes of gov made bullion GOLD coins that weigh right and are the right dimensions.  I would opine that such don't even exist.  The best counterfeits of rare coins are where said counterfeits are made with real gold and in the right percentage, such as fakes of old pre 33 US gold coins, where such a rare coin might be worth $10K or more so it's worth it to make the fakes out of real gold to try and pass on to someone.

If we are talking about fake Krugs, Maples, Eagles, etc, the fakes are EASY to spot if you have any coin experience.  I have seen fake Maples and Krugs over the years and none of them looked good to me, maybe to a newbie.

If someone tries to fake a gold coin with tungsten it is difficult because tungsten is brittle and would be near impossible to get the same detail on the coin vs. a real gov bullion coin.   Gold coins also have a particular "ring" to them sort of like silver.  Anyone who buys gold bars and gets fakes because they wanted to save a few bucks on premiums vs. gold gov coins gets what they deserve, after reading my post herein.  big_smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P1h6uXDACY

Just my opinion.

Jim

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#58 2016-02-18 14:38:51

Golden ChipMunk
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From: Jupiter, Venus, Mars
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

Jim4silver wrote:
Golden ChipMunk wrote:

Another Fakes sighted , 
Perth Mint 10 g certi cards.... Sequence in numbers.....


You poo poo'd my prior post here which was 100% good advice.   It is much easier to make real looking fake gold bars than gold coins (especially when the gold bar is in plastic).   It is very difficult to make fakes of gov made bullion GOLD coins that weigh right and are the right dimensions.  I would opine that such don't even exist.  The best counterfeits of rare coins are where said counterfeits are made with real gold and in the right percentage, such as fakes of old pre 33 US gold coins, where such a rare coin might be worth $10K or more so it's worth it to make the fakes out of real gold to try and pass on to someone.

If we are talking about fake Krugs, Maples, Eagles, etc, the fakes are EASY to spot if you have any coin experience.  I have seen fake Maples and Krugs over the years and none of them looked good to me, maybe to a newbie.

If someone tries to fake a gold coin with tungsten it is difficult because tungsten is brittle and would be near impossible to get the same detail on the coin vs. a real gov bullion coin.   Gold coins also have a particular "ring" to them sort of like silver.  Anyone who buys gold bars and gets fakes because they wanted to save a few bucks on premiums vs. gold gov coins gets what they deserve, after reading my post herein.  big_smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P1h6uXDACY

Just my opinion.

Jim

???
Haven't seen any fakes coins yet, doesn't mean they are not out there.
Intercept one last year.... But not allow to show it....


Original Perth CAPSULES - All Sizes Available
Full/ Half SOVEREIGN caps, contact Chip wink

Please leave pm , I will reply back  wink Chip

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#59 2016-02-18 14:55:45

Jim4silver
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From: US
Registered: 2015-04-03
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

Golden ChipMunk wrote:
Jim4silver wrote:
Golden ChipMunk wrote:

Another Fakes sighted , 
Perth Mint 10 g certi cards.... Sequence in numbers.....


You poo poo'd my prior post here which was 100% good advice.   It is much easier to make real looking fake gold bars than gold coins (especially when the gold bar is in plastic).   It is very difficult to make fakes of gov made bullion GOLD coins that weigh right and are the right dimensions.  I would opine that such don't even exist.  The best counterfeits of rare coins are where said counterfeits are made with real gold and in the right percentage, such as fakes of old pre 33 US gold coins, where such a rare coin might be worth $10K or more so it's worth it to make the fakes out of real gold to try and pass on to someone.

If we are talking about fake Krugs, Maples, Eagles, etc, the fakes are EASY to spot if you have any coin experience.  I have seen fake Maples and Krugs over the years and none of them looked good to me, maybe to a newbie.

If someone tries to fake a gold coin with tungsten it is difficult because tungsten is brittle and would be near impossible to get the same detail on the coin vs. a real gov bullion coin.   Gold coins also have a particular "ring" to them sort of like silver.  Anyone who buys gold bars and gets fakes because they wanted to save a few bucks on premiums vs. gold gov coins gets what they deserve, after reading my post herein.  big_smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P1h6uXDACY

Just my opinion.

Jim

???
Haven't seen any fakes coins yet, doesn't mean they are not out there.
Intercept one last year.... But not allow to show it....

I have spoken with dealers over the years, and every one of them had a "stash" of stuff some errant employee bought over the counter.  I have had a chance to peruse a couple of these stashes and the fake gold COINS were a joke, the fake gold BARS looked 100% legit.   Plus with the advent of something called the internet it is easy to search for sample of fake gov minted coins (note the pictures on some sites like Aliexpress often show the real coin even though a fake is being sold). 

I suppose there are super, secret fakes out there nobody knows of yet.

Jim

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#60 2016-02-18 17:29:38

mmissinglink
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

Very interesting video..... 




.


In some ways, we are not that different

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#61 2016-02-19 12:20:52

Golden ChipMunk
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From: Jupiter, Venus, Mars
Registered: 2012-12-12
Posts: 6,727
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

How to tell the Fakes Certi card?

Base from my observation ,

1. The writing a bit smaller compare to a normal card
2. The serial number can be seen through from the other side " Rectangle Number Plate "
3. The colour green card look a bit darker green, some are very light green

Hope this help other, to weed those fakes stuffs.


Original Perth CAPSULES - All Sizes Available
Full/ Half SOVEREIGN caps, contact Chip wink

Please leave pm , I will reply back  wink Chip

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#62 2016-02-25 20:49:51

ozcopper
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

Online

#63 2016-02-25 21:09:24

SpacePete
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

ozcopper wrote:

But its in a PCGS slab!


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#64 2016-02-25 21:21:31

GoldenEye
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

ozcopper wrote:

The same seller has other gold coins he describes as plated, but he's implying this one is real.

Amazingly, he previously sold a 1 oz gold coin for over $1,600 and it was described as plated!!  sad

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#65 2016-03-04 11:33:38

matrawr
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

Found some jm silver bars on aliexpress.com even with serials which gives me the impression that one day we may not be able to tell the difference www.aliexpress.com/item32242395775.html

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#66 2016-03-04 11:50:19

matrawr
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

http://m.aliexpress.com/getSiteProductE … 775&page=1 try that if the previous link doesn't work sorry

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#67 2016-03-04 17:55:19

Jim4silver
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

matrawr wrote:

http://m.aliexpress.com/getSiteProductE … 775&page=1 try that if the previous link doesn't work sorry


Please note that some aliexpress sellers use photos of the real thing to sell a fake.  I can't speak to your example though.   I have seen fake JM's and they had no serial number.  Like the ones in the below links.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-OZ-JM- … 4.8.YhJMiL

http://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/John … .9.ch4bG0#

Jim

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#68 2016-03-04 18:02:43

DanielM
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Registered: 2012-10-23
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

If the owner of Alibaba was scamming the Chinese public he would be shot in the streets. But no, he is scamming the western world so he is a celebrated billionaire


Don't be shy....Stack it high!!

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#69 2016-03-04 18:47:13

mmissinglink
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

More fakes ASE's show up at coin show....  http://www.numismaticnews.net/article/f … dium=email




.


In some ways, we are not that different

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#70 2016-03-04 18:52:44

DanielM
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Registered: 2012-10-23
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

mmissinglink wrote:

More fakes ASE's show up at coin show....  http://www.numismaticnews.net/article/f … dium=email




.

Not even close to good fakes


Don't be shy....Stack it high!!

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#71 2016-03-04 20:17:59

matrawr
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From: United Kingdom
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

Jim4silver wrote:
matrawr wrote:

http://m.aliexpress.com/getSiteProductE … 775&page=1 try that if the previous link doesn't work sorry


Please note that some aliexpress sellers use photos of the real thing to sell a fake.  I can't speak to your example though.   I have seen fake JM's and they had no serial number.  Like the ones in the below links.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-OZ-JM- … 4.8.YhJMiL

http://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/John … .9.ch4bG0#

Jim

Even says with serial under the image of the bars if they are able to replicate these bars to such a degree that's a lot of money I did inform jmbullion of this not sure if there's anything they can do though

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#72 2016-05-13 10:15:41

Luriya
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

Ebay seems to be riddled with this error now. Had a friend get scammed recently. You can't even go by pictures or "reports" it seems now


"If speaking is Silver, then listening is gold " - Turkish Proverb

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#73 2016-05-13 10:43:35

SpacePete
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

Luriya wrote:

Ebay seems to be riddled with this error now. Had a friend get scammed recently. You can't even go by pictures or "reports" it seems now

The market valuation of eBay (and Alibaba) is now so high that cracking down on fakes would be far too risky and potentially damaging to regulatory bodies. Another example of "too big to fail".


Catus amat piscem, sed non vult tingere plantas

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#74 2016-10-05 01:16:32

MikeW
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From: Townsville
Registered: 2012-04-12
Posts: 161
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/ascot/ot … 1125854677

This looks like a fake, Queen's face side has "1 OUNCE" instead of "1 DOLLAR"

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#75 2016-12-29 18:58:19

Ryans Rust
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Re: FAKES - a massive list with Pics

goldpelican wrote:
Lunardragon wrote:

shieeeetttt !! that PM gold bar !
mad

These fakes don't come in Certicards. They are loose.

Apart from the 10oz PAMP gold bars last year in New York which were substituted in real packaging that had been opened and restapled, I've never seen a fake gold bar in a card.

There's a fake RCM 1oz gold bar in card. The fake card has a few tells, luckily.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussio … ssay-cards

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